Reply to post

B-17 Flight Engineer / Top Turret Gunner

Author
hkellerjr
MULESKINNER 5
  • Total Posts : 784
  • Reward points : 6722
  • Joined:
  • Location: Virginia
  • Status: offline
0

B-17 Flight Engineer / Top Turret Gunner

What were the specific duties / responsibilites of the B-17 Flight Engineer? 
Thank you, Howard

Howard W. Keller, Jr. (LTC, US Army, Ret)
Historian,
452nd Bomb Group Association

9 Replies Related Threads

    RSwank
    Division Member
    • Total Posts : 2057
    • Reward points : 6378
    • Joined:
    • Location: Holland, MI USA
    • Status: offline
    jpeters140
    Moderator
    • Total Posts : 7074
    • Reward points : 19504
    • Joined:
    • Location: Columbus, Indiana
    • Status: offline
    Re:B-17 Flight Engineer / Top Turret Gunner (permalink)
    0
    As a former flight engineer, the list is long. 
     
    The main purpose of the flight engineer, was to assist the pilots in operating the aircraft. This included monitoring the engine instruments in flight, paying close attention to the cylinder head temperatures, (as they were red lined in climb, on a mission).
     
    In preparation for the flight, the load list ( a list of ALL crewmen by serial number,rank, and duty) was completed,signed by the pilot,then given to the crew chief to forward to operations.
     
    Used the load adjuster to determine that the Center of Gravity was within the correct limits.
     
    ( In  airline operations today the function is performed by the airline operations, where the porper loading of the baggage is calculated to include which bags are in either the forward or aft baggage compartments).
     
    In moving the aircraft, the flight engineer assisted the pilots by re-locking the tail wheel, when taxi-ing. I also after the aircraft was on the runway for take-off, called off the airspeed for the pilot, until we were airborne.,monitoring the engine instruments.
     
    The flight engineer was also the NCOIC of the enlisted men, to include the radio operator. and the other gunners.
     
    During the mission, the flight engineer stayed on the ship interphone, to listen for any crew member who needed to pass on information to the pilots,as they were on the VHF/UHF,monitoring the Group Lead.
     
    To do this, the FE removed his left headset, the pilot his right and the copilo also his left and  communcation was by yelling over the sound of the engines...this was necessary,because if any other crewmwmber used the call position of the ship interphone, the call  position OVERRODE ..ALL communcations to include interphone, VHF/UHF functions...so, if the radio silence was imposed,  the radio silence would be compromised.
     
    In preparation for landing, he obtained the manual landing gear cranks,and verified the full down postion of the tail wheel, and each main landing gear, and returned to the cockpit.
     
    Again, he called off the airspeed in the landing pattern...and relocked the tail wheen required,on the taxiing to the parking stub.
     
    After landing , the FE was responsible to list any and all abnormal discrepancies, on the Form  1....the pilot would review and sign the form to be given  to the crewchief.
     
    This is a compressd list and does not include all functions.
     
    (Added...Roland's two references tell it liike it was...they are both comprehensive in detail).
     
    While it concerned a FE from the 8th AF, the listing applied to all B-17 FEs.
     
    Jim :-) 

    James S. Peters Sr. T/Sgt B-17 Flt Engr, 27 missions 99 BG, 348BS, 5th Wing, 15th AAF Tortorella, (Foggia#2), Italy My Tour was from 12/03/44-06/19/45 M/Sgt USAF (Retired)
    RSwank
    Division Member
    • Total Posts : 2057
    • Reward points : 6378
    • Joined:
    • Location: Holland, MI USA
    • Status: offline
    Re:B-17 Flight Engineer / Top Turret Gunner (permalink)
    0
    Jim, did you ever fly the plane?   A flight engineer I talked with said that once his pilot thought it might be a good idea if he could fly the plane in case of an emergency and so had him try it  when they were up on a practice flight.   A call came on the inter-phone from the tail gunner asking "What the H*ll is going on, we are flying up and down and all over the D*m Sky."  That  ended the experiment.   The flight engineer said, "I sat in the co-pilot's seat, had my hands and feet on the controls and stared at the instruments as I was taught.   I thought  my "average"  air speed was pretty good."
    post edited by RSwank -
    Bob Gilbert
    Silver Bird
    • Total Posts : 915
    • Reward points : 10104
    • Joined:
    • Location: Murrieta, CA
    • Status: offline
    Re:B-17 Flight Engineer / Top Turret Gunner (permalink)
    0
    Just from my perspective as a crew member, the Flight Engineer was the primary person for all matters technical, before, during and after the mission.  Before the mission he coordinated with the ground crew chief to make sure the aircraft was ready to perform as needed.  Durimg the mission, responsibilities as Jim covered, and any equipment emergencies that happened needing immediate solutions.  After the mission he again coordinated with the ground crew chief on the aircraft's performance plus all known damage to the plane.  In short as I saw it he was the key member of any crew for all things technical.

    Bob Gilbert
    S/Sgt, 35 missions 
    Ball Turret Gunner, Goldin crew
    381st Bomb Gp., 533rd Bomb Sq.
    US 8th Air Force
    Author: "The View From The Bottom Up" memoir
    jpeters140
    Moderator
    • Total Posts : 7074
    • Reward points : 19504
    • Joined:
    • Location: Columbus, Indiana
    • Status: offline
    Re:B-17 Flight Engineer / Top Turret Gunner (permalink)
    0
    Rolland...The pilot let me at the controls on the way to overseas for about 1/2 hour...but not otherwise.
    I learned to fly after the war...and on one occsasion, I did get at the controls again on one CAF AZ Wing summer tour....I did not do too well. I was  over controlling, but with a total of only 1 hr time, and I felt with time I could have mastered the flying...most crews had either a navigator or bombardier who had much more time than I, had washed out of pilot training ,and was given the opportunity of either position, or the needs of the service prevailed, and more navigators and bombardiers were needed.
    Towards the end of the war, the service felt that there  were enough pilots, and discontinued the pilot training..some of those were transferred to the ground forces and others were trained as gunners, somn much to thier displeasure. So, some of those gunners had some flight experience. 
     
    Some pilots wanted others to be able to fly the aircraft, and others felt differently.
     
    Jim :-)
    post edited by jpeters140 -

    James S. Peters Sr. T/Sgt B-17 Flt Engr, 27 missions 99 BG, 348BS, 5th Wing, 15th AAF Tortorella, (Foggia#2), Italy My Tour was from 12/03/44-06/19/45 M/Sgt USAF (Retired)
    jhor9
    B17 Jock
    • Total Posts : 1966
    • Reward points : 4397
    • Joined:
    • Location: boca raton, FL
    • Status: offline
    Re:B-17 Flight Engineer / Top Turret Gunner (permalink)
    0
    Rolland, 
     
    I had my engineer able to fly the plaane except for landings and takeoffs.
    It paid off. On my way overseas to Marrakech after leaving the Sahara, I had to go over the Atlas Mts. We did not have oxygen in the plane . the maps were unreliable, we had to go through a pass but didn't find it. I had the engineer sit on th strap between he the 2 pilot seats and told both thec opilot and engineer that not knowing what our O2 tolerance it would be better to have 3 pople able to hndlr the controls rather then  2. We were able to cross the mts at 20k with no problem. I thought better safe then sorry.
    jules
     
     
     
     

    Jules Horowitz, B-17 pilot, 99th BG, 50 missions/sorties
    My tour was from 7/19/43-2/13/44
    Neale600
    Group Member
    • Total Posts : 132
    • Reward points : 6558
    • Joined:
    • Location: Holt, MI
    • Status: offline
    Re:B-17 Flight Engineer / Top Turret Gunner (permalink)
    0
    I went through my transcription of my brother's 100's of letters home to find his references to flying the plane.  (T/Sgt. Ranold Musolff, 8th AF, 388th BG, 561st BSqd. TT gunner & Flt. Eng., KIA 16 August 1944).
     
    While stationed at Ardmore AFB on 8 February 1944 he wrote, "Pilot said he will teach me enough about flying and let me fly the ship so I will be able to fly it in emergency.  Be a third pilot."  On 10 March 1944 he wrote, " I'm learning alot about navigation from the navigator.  Pilot goes to do something in the ship he tells me to get up in his seat and be acting pilot.  Get a hold of controls every once in a whi8le and get to fly 60 tons of airplane for 15 or 20 minutes.  I flew it for about 20 minutes last night."
     
    In another letter he refers to his pre-war lessons in a Piper Cub and how that "hooked him" on flying.  Said flying a Cub was more fun than a big bomber.
     
    So obviously the pilot was the primary factor whether or not the engineer was brought in as a "safety valve".   As Jim states, and from my brother's letters, it is a fact that the engineer certainly
    had host of responsibilities.  Also, it was apparent that to earn that responsibility an engineer had to work hard and compete for that designation.
     
    Neale600
    hkellerjr
    MULESKINNER 5
    • Total Posts : 784
    • Reward points : 6722
    • Joined:
    • Location: Virginia
    • Status: offline
    Re:B-17 Flight Engineer / Top Turret Gunner (permalink)
    0
    Greatly appreciate all the information.  Very, Very, helpful

    Howard W. Keller, Jr. (LTC, US Army, Ret)
    Historian,
    452nd Bomb Group Association
    Nicolas75
    Group Member
    • Total Posts : 173
    • Reward points : 1651
    • Joined:
    • Location: France
    • Status: offline
    Re:B-17 Flight Engineer / Top Turret Gunner (permalink)
    0
    Very interseting post, i was about to ask the same question
    Jump to:
    © 2013 APG vNext Commercial Version 4.3