Which ship, which crew...?

Discussion in 'Prisoners of War, MIA, & Internees' started by BMBazooka, Feb 9, 2017.

  1. BMBazooka

    BMBazooka Active Member

    I got a page of a private diary on an incident of the year 1944.
    A woman who flew for political reasons in the area of Bukow near Teterow remembers the downing of an american bomber on May 25th 1944. No murder, but looting. 3 survivors, 4 killed.
    I found a downing for the 29th in Neu-Bukow yet but thats the wrong one since the date does not fit and they were nearly all killed.
    Any idea ? I guess 8th AF, possible target Neubrandenburg, Wismar, Berlin, Rostock, Peenemünde, Neubrandenburg.
    Thank you for your input!
     
  2. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

    Susanne I only found on this date the B-26B # 41-31853

    Bombaimer T/Sgt. Forest F.Estel was murdered by two Germans.
    War Crime Trials Dachau, Case 6-55

    29th MAY 1944 ; B-17G # 42-102946 '' Sgt John C Gerson was beaten by hostile civilians who capture him.
     
  3. Lucky Partners

    Lucky Partners Well-Known Member

    Per Bishop & Hey, on 25 May the 323rd BG also lost B-26B 42-95929. MACR 5040. 4 POW, 2 Evaded. Also 2 B-24s and 2 B-17s lost same day.

    Suzanne, is crew count of 7 total correct? Both B-26s carried crew of 6 and the B-24s carried 10. One B-17 carried 11, the other carried 10.
     
  4. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Perhaps I misunderstood the query. The suspected bomber crash sighting was near Teterow which is extreme northeast Germany. From the USAAF Chronology for 25 May 1944 all strategic and tactical targets were in France and Belgium (Like 42-95929 and 41-31853) attacking marshalling yards primarily as part of the pre-invasion prep. Nothing found for any AAF activity this far north and east. Maybe it was RAF, always hard for me to find their missions.
    Teterow Germany.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
  5. BMBazooka

    BMBazooka Active Member

    Thank you for your input. Its appreciated as ever.
    I go into detail of this diary:
    I do not know now where the woman lived. She mentions Bukow, were vone of the flyers sat in jail for a day, the crashsite 2kms apart from her home. The day she noticed it down was 27th of May 1944. She wrote, that it was an american bomber and it happened 2 days before. There was a fight in the air, than the ship crashed. 4 dead ones, 3 survivors. All the people were gathering at the crashsite looting whatever they could get before the police or military arrived.
    B-26 would have been a Marauder. How many men are in such a crew?
     
  6. Lucky Partners

    Lucky Partners Well-Known Member

    6 men in a B-26 crew.
     
  7. BMBazooka

    BMBazooka Active Member

    And it happened at day-time.
     
  8. Lucky Partners

    Lucky Partners Well-Known Member

    So if it happened during the day that would rule out the RAF. Could it be that several crew men bailed out before the plane went down and those men landed several miles away and so were not noticed to be part of the crew. Only 7 men certainly is an odd number for a crew.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
  9. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    24 May 1944 was a whole different story if the witness was off by a day.
    WEDNESDAY, 24 MAY 1944
    EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS
    (ETO) STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 367: 1,106 bombers and 602 fighters are dispatched on visual attacks on airfields in the Paris area and PFF and visual bombing of Berlin; 33 bombers and 10 fighters are lost; the fighters claim 33-7-6 Luftwaffe aircraft:
    1. 616 B-17s are dispatched to Berlin; 464 hit the primary, 34 bomb Nauen, 13 bomb Rechlin and 6 bomb targets of opportunity; 33 B-17s are lost, 1 is damaged beyond repair and 256 damaged; 4 airmen are KIA, 24 WIA and 482 MIA.
    2. 490 B-24s are dispatched to bomb airfields at Melun (168 bomb) and Orly (151 bomb); 58 bomb Pix Airfield and 23 comb Creil Airfield; 33 B-24s are damaged.
    Escort is provided by 144 P-38s, 178 P-47s and 280 P-51s; P-38s claim 6-0-2 Luftwaffe aircraft and P-51s claim 27-7-4; 1 P-38, 1 P-47 and 8 P-51s are lost;
    1 P-51 is damaged beyond repair; 1 P-38, 1 P-47 and 4 P-51s are damaged; 1 pilot is WIA and 10 MIA.
    Mission 368: 222 fighter are dispatched to attack rail bridges in France; 1. 74 P-47s are dispatched to hit bridges at Creil (44 bomb) and Verberie (28 bomb); 1 P-47 is damaged.
    2. 124 P-51s, escorted by 24 P-51s, are dispatched to bomb bridges at Beaumont-sur-Oise (59 bomb) and Soissons (34 bomb); 29 also hit St. Leger/Albert Airfield; they claim 3-0-0 Luftwaffe aircraft in the air and 2-0-1 on the ground; 3 P-51s are lost and 6 damaged; 1 pilot is WIA and 3 MIA.
    Mission 369: 4 of 4 B-17s drop 2.54 million leaflets on France and Belgium without loss.
    3 B-24s are dispatched on CARPETBAGGER operations without loss.

    TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): In France, 450+ B-26s attack airfields, coastal defenses and V-weapon sites; and P-38s and P-47s dive-bomb 4 landing fields.

    http://paul.rutgers.edu/~mcgrew/wwii/usaf/html/May.44.html
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
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  10. BMBazooka

    BMBazooka Active Member

    Yeah. thats what she herad and saw. She didn't went to that ship because she was jewish.
     
  11. BMBazooka

    BMBazooka Active Member

    Scott that sounds better. Berlin, Nauen, Rechlin - everything could fit.
     
  12. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Yes plenty of Forts falling from the sky this day. Depending on course to and from the targets all of northern Germany is a possibility for a crash.
     
  13. BMBazooka

    BMBazooka Active Member

    if only 33 - I'll find that. Just takes a little time.
    Thank you for all your efforts, Gentlemen!
     
  14. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    A "maybe" only from date and 4 KIA; location would take more time:
    42-32113 Del Cheyenne 24/1/44; Gr Island 6/2/44; Grenier 23/2/44; Ass 368BS/306BG [BO-G] Thurleigh 12/3/44; MIA Berlin 24/5/44 w/Bob Ehrler, cp-Alden Maynes, n-John James, b-Burton Gustafson, ettg-Paul Pratt (5POW); ro-Ben Ferns, btg-Gaetano Abbattiello, wg-Chester Predko, tg-John Hay (4KIA); flak hit severed tail, cr Perleberger-Brucke, Berlin; MACR 4952.

    This is the only one from the Berlin mission with 4 KIA. This might be a bad assumption (sorting tool) since the witness is not accounting for a full 10 man crew.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
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  15. Lucky Partners

    Lucky Partners Well-Known Member

    Suzanne,
    Here are the first 10 from Bishop & Hey for 24 May. So far only one matches your indication of 4 KIA

    42-107178 3 KIA, 3 POW, 1 INT
    42-31635 10 POW
    42-97787 9 KIA, 1 POW
    42-39949 10 POW
    42-32113 4 KIA, 5 POW
    42-38005 10 POW
    42-37784 8 KIA, 1 POW
    42-38082 9 KIA
    42-39828 3 KIA, 6 POW
    42-31291 2 KIA, 7 POW

    This should eliminate some from your search based on numbers. Will go through the rest later.
     
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  16. BMBazooka

    BMBazooka Active Member

    Thank you :):):):) !!!!!
    And keep in mind, that the fact they were alive around May 24th does not mean they were alive automatically 3 days or 4 days later. Its just around Goebbel infamous speech...
    Checked these 10: no matches.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
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  17. Lucky Partners

    Lucky Partners Well-Known Member

    Next 10:

    42-31698 7 KIA, 2 POW
    42-31878 6 KIA, 4 POW
    42-38010 2 KIA, 7 POW
    42-39890 5 KIA, 4 POW
    42-97214 9 KIA
    42-31364 2 KIA, 7 POW
    42-107132 7 KIA, 3 POW
    42-107231 8 KIA, 3 POW
    42-31619 10 INT
    42-102965 10 RTD ditched North Sea
     
  18. Lucky Partners

    Lucky Partners Well-Known Member

    Suzanne,

    Here are the final 13 for 24 May 1944:

    42-31252 10 RTD Ditched
    42-39924 7 KIA, 3 POW
    42-31306 3 KIA, 7 POW
    42-31534 10 POW
    42-31941 2 KIA, 8 POW
    42-97095 1 KIA, 9 POW
    42-97845 10 POW
    42-10258 5 KIA, 5 POW
    42-102624 7 KIA, 3 POW
    42-102635 10 KIA
    42-102648 6 KIA, 4 POW
    42-31742 10 POW
    42-102494 10 KIA

    Plus: 11 P-51s
    1 P-47
    1 P-38

    None of these matches the casualties in your diary. 42-32113 is the closest. Too bad we don't have a photograph, frequently people took pictures of wreckage that have helped with identification. Somebody in this town probably took a picture but I doubt we'll ever find it.

    Hal
     
  19. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    42-32113 went down in the city of Berlin, at Perleberger Brucke, so that one is out.
     
  20. terveurn

    terveurn Active Member

    Did anybody bother to pull-up the Luftwaffe lists for the day in question 25 May 1944 -- be a lot easier then guessing.

    25 May 44 pt 1.JPG 25 May 44 pt 2.JPG 25 May 44 pt 3.JPG
     
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