Visiting a crash site

Discussion in 'All Hands Club & Canteen Discussion Area' started by Mary Kircher Roddy, May 16, 2017.

  1. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    Mary's map at scale 1:100,000 would be this map (Hanover N4).

    http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/central_europe/txu-pclmaps-oclc-6624264-hannover-n4.jpg

    We can do some tests to see how far off the co-ordinate translator might be.

    Point 56 15 (rX560150) intersects directly on a canal on the Hannover N4 Map. It is slightly left of the road that runs south from Evern and crosses the canal.

    The co-ordinate translator puts the location about 200 m north of the canal and to the right of the road that runs down from Evern (maybe 200 m further east of the the N4 map point). So a straight line error of around 280 m.

    Update: on the co-ordinates translator page here:

    http://www.echodelta.net/mbs/eng-translator.php
    is the following statement. (It appears they did some tests similar to what I am doing and got very similar results.)

    "Its imprecision, evaluated on the basis of a series of "gauged" points, varies from 5 to 30 arc-seconds, depending on the map projection used (this corresponds to an imprecision varying from 150 to 1000 meters on the field)."
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
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  2. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Thank you, Rolland. Just using the translator this was the result for the Golden interment, as was found by Mary.

    1st Lt Mark L Golden interment (Cap1).jpg
    1st Lt Mark L Golden interment (Cap2).jpg
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  3. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    Scott, when I look at the actual map

    http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/central_europe/txu-pclmaps-oclc-6624264-hannover-n4.jpg

    and plot on it the co-ordinates 595 112 (i.e. go to the intersection of 59 and 11 and then move half way (5/10s) toward vertical line 60 and 2/10 up toward horizontal line 12, I think the point is right inside the town of Ohlum, inside the"tip" of the triangle formed by the roads Kuhtrift and Aalweg. (Your mileage may vary.)
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
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  4. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Thanks Rolland. I have been playing with plotting using this map and must admit I'm not very handy with these tools. It just seems very peculiar to me that the Germans would bury Lt. Golden out in the middle of a farm field. Even when the Nazis civilian or military murdered an airman their bodies were normally interned in some type of cemetery.

    Ohlum map: 595 112, compared to triangle formed by Kuhtrift and Aalweg roads.
    Ohlum.jpg (2) Ohlum; triangle Kuhtrift and Aalweg.jpg

    Ohlum, 200 yard red line (factor of error?)
    Ohlum, 200 yard red line.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
    Airwar and Mary Kircher Roddy like this.
  5. Mary Kircher Roddy

    Mary Kircher Roddy New Member

    Thank you for putting so much thought into this. I really appreciate your perspective. I am pretty much a newbie at this, but I am learning all kinds of things from all of you.
     
  6. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

    Isolated graves can be at the local cemeteries. Iam sure that the church register can help to find
    the whereabouts of this burial. But Dirk Hartmann is an very well investigator ( like Susanne )
    and you Mary and we must wait on his research.

    Iam next week in Germany for holidays and meeting with an German researcher in the Sauerland vicinity.

    Jaap
     
  7. BMBazooka

    BMBazooka Active Member

  8. Mary Kircher Roddy

    Mary Kircher Roddy New Member

    Thanks for looking!
     
  9. Robert Morrison

    Robert Morrison New Member

    Hello Mary. I am a first cousin of the late 2nd Lt James Walton Black. I was simply surfing today when I came across this interest of yours and your amazing research into the loss of his friend Lt Godden. I remember the photograph well as my mother had the original which was given to her by my her sister my Aunt Mary - the Mary referred to on the photo which was signed by her brother, my Uncle James, father of James Walton Black. My Uncle James was a Captain in the Irish Guards when he was awarded the British Military Cross for his actions in WW1 at the Battle of Ypres. He subsequently re-enlisted when WW2 broke out and he served with the Irish(Canadian) Guards with the rank of Major - as shown in the photo..
    I am sorry to say I never met James Jr, or his father and I, until very recently, knew nothing of James Jrs war history, and the possible loss of his hand was never mentioned in our family to my knowledge. I wish you well with your research, and please ask if I can be of any help.
    Robert.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2017
    Airwar likes this.
  10. Mary Kircher Roddy

    Mary Kircher Roddy New Member

    Hi Robert - It is so exciting to hear from you! I really would love to talk to you a bit more about your family. I did not go into it in the article, nor here on armyairforces.com because the connection doesn't have much to do with what I'm looking for in Germany. However, if you would be so kind as to to to the contact form on my website - http://www.mkrgenealogy.com/contact.html and reach out with your email address, I would much appreciate it. I hope we can communicate soon.
    Mary
     

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