Mid-air collision

Discussion in '490th BG - Eye' started by moltke, Mar 13, 2016.

  1. moltke

    moltke New Member

    Hello,
    I try to locate the site of the crash of two B-17 belonging to 490 BG serial numbers 43-38167 and 43-38699 (MACR 12371 and 12426) after a mid-air collision on return mission Chemnitz near Mittersheim (France) February 6, 1945.
    Thank you.

    Marc
     
  2. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    There seems to be some inconsistent info available on these two planes.

    43-38167

    Delivered: Cheyenne 3/7/44; Kearney 12/7/44; Grenier 20/7/44; Assigned: 490BG Eye 22/7/44; during assembly for Chemnitz 6/2/45 Pilot: ', mid air coll w/43-38699; crashed Prickwillow, UK; crews baled, but one man killed plus two civilians; MACR 12371; Salvaged. 2/3/45.
    Source: B-17 Master Log - Dave Osbourne


    43-38699
    Delivered Patterson 5/9/44; Hunter 29/9/44; Dow Fd 7/10/44; Assigned 490BG Eye 14/10/44; Missing in Action Chemnitz 6/2/45 with ?; mid air coll with 43-38167; crashed continent; Salvaged 2/3/45; Missing Air Crew Report 12426.

    One seems to have crashed in the UK during assembly, the other on the continent on the return from the mission. I wonder if the planes actually collided with different planes and not each other?
     
  3. Lucky Partners

    Lucky Partners Well-Known Member

    One comment without having done any research, a/c that crashed in the UK would not expect to see a MACR as shown above.
     
  4. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    There is an account of the crash here:

    https://books.google.com/books?id=82LFAbTl58AC&pg=PA72&lpg=PA72&dq="william+s+schoenfeld"|"schoenfeld,+williams"&source=bl&ots=kHkjZHyvfj&sig=j7FiYM0JRHdGr1YTCnQ73qHB1iE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjJ3em9lL7LAhXGOCYKHamBBKwQ6AEIRjAJ#v=onepage&q="william s schoenfeld"|"schoenfeld, williams"&f=false

    It would appear that possibly the plane that crashed at Prickwillow may have been 43-37894.

    The planes that collided in France were flown by William S Schoenfeld (43-38167) and Marshall C Dunn (43-38699). It sounds like they both would have crashed at the same location which was close to Mittersheim, France.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2016
  5. Lucky Partners

    Lucky Partners Well-Known Member

    Only page from MACR 12371 attached. Three pages from MACR 12426 also attached.


    12371.jpg

    12426 PG 1.jpg

    12426 PG 2.jpg


    12426 PG 3.jpg
     
  6. moltke

    moltke New Member

    I did not expect such a quick response. Sure I knew these inconsistencies but for me it was clear in the MACR the crash has occurred near MITTERSHEIM. I continue my research.
    Thank you RSwank and Lucky Partners for this informations
     
  7. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

  8. terveurn

    terveurn Active Member

    Then you have the original report from the 490th BG

    mid air collision.JPG
     
  9. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    Interesting that the location they give for the crash is more like 12 miles NW of Mittersheim. It would probably take some input from the locals to pinpoint the exact location of the crash.
     
  10. moltke

    moltke New Member

    Thanks to this document I did not know and which provides important information that coordinates of MACR (48.55N and 6.40E) is not only the point where the aircraft was last sighted but also the point where they burst into flames near Morhange
     
  11. moltke

    moltke New Member

    Another interesting information for my research where did you find them?
     
  12. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

  13. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

  14. terveurn

    terveurn Active Member

  15. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    The planes crashed in a liberated area so no AV reports. The men that bailed out were taken to the crash site by US troops to try and identify some of the bodies in the planes.
     
  16. moltke

    moltke New Member

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