Lt. Robert Carl Milliken 429th FS

Discussion in '474th FG' started by Gary Koch, Dec 28, 2016.

  1. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

  2. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

    I thought this is an English site ????
     
  3. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Dank u, Jaap,
    Wij "de leden" moet je vaker te danken voor uw schrijven in het Engels. De laatste keer dat ik bracht dit onderwerp Engels met een Fransen nieuw op het forum hij beledigd werd en kwam nooit meer terug.

    Om te voorkomen dat Google translate werd gebruikt kort zodat andere Engels lezen leden wist wat er gaande was zonder dat zelf te vertalen.

    Nogmaals, ik dank u voor uw regulare gebruik van het Engels.
    Scott
     
    Airwar likes this.
  4. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

    HA HA Thanks Scott
     
  5. Gary Koch

    Gary Koch New Member

    Hello all and Bonjour to our new French friend,
    From what I gather, he is building of model of what Levey's P-38 would have looked like. I don't have a photograph of this specific P-38 but I have a pretty good guess what it would have looked like. First, Levey's P-38 on that mission was a P-38J-15-LO model which means it would have been natural metal. I only know of a few rare exceptions where a J-15 model was olive drab camouflaged. That is one way of distinguishing P-38 models in the ETO. If it was olive drab camo then it was likely a P-38J-10-LO or earlier model. All subsequent models (J-15 and later) were delivered in natural metal as the OD camouflage was deemed no longer necessary as the war progressed. Levey's P-38 also would have likely had invasion stripes that wrapped around both wings and tail booms. In wasn't until sometime in July 1944 that ETO P-38s had the invasion stripes confined to the underside of the wings and tails booms. Since Levey was shot down on July 5th, there is a good chance his P-38 had the full invasion stripes on the top and bottom of the aircraft. The squadron code "7Y" would have been on the outside of each tail boom just behind the coolant radiators. The individual aircraft code "E" would have been on the outside of each coolant radiator housing as well as on the inside of each vertical stabilizer. Both the squadron code and individual a/c code would have been in black and placed within one of the white stripes. The a/c serial number would have been on the outside of each vertical stabilizer, however, the 429th squadron symbol (a black triangle) would have been painted over it obliterating all but the first two and last two numbers of the serial number.
    I don't know if this aircraft had any kind of squadron color (which likely would have been red, 428th FS was blue/black and 430th was yellow) painted on the nose or propeller spinners. 474th FG P-38s had no standard or uniform way of painting their aircraft. Most of their P-38s had spurious and random markings that often depended on the taste of the pilot/ground crew for that aircraft. On many of the 474th FG P-38s, the last three digits (sometimes four) were painted on each side of the nose, right below the guns. But this too was a random occurrence depending on the individual P-38. So it is possible the digits "424" may have appeared on both sides of the nose. Attached are a couple of graphics that should help with the layout of the markings. Imagine the graphic of 7Y-Y with full invasion stripes and no colors on the nose/prop spinners and you should have a good idea of what Levey's P-38 looked like.
    I do have one question for our French friend. Can you tell me the precise location of Levey's crash site? Attached is a Google Earth photo of the area. All I know is it was approximately one kilometer south of Ruffigne (possibly near La Herviais?).


    A Bientot, Gary
     

    Attached Files:

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  6. barthé35

    barthé35 New Member

    Bonjour les amis

    P-38J-15-LO du 1st Lt.Levey Rolland E est bien tombé sur la commune de Ruffigné au lieudit « La Pérouse » j’ai trois à quatre témoins qui peuvent me le confirmer. Le jour du crash de c’est appareil il y eut une perte civile faite par armée Allemande. J’habite à une vingtaine de kilomètres du crash. Demain jeudi après-midi, je pars faire une petite enquête sur le terrain avec la personne qui a trouvé le bouchon de vidange moteur. Aujourd’hui même je viens de recevoir qu’il y aurait dans une ferme aux a l’entoure du point de crash le poste radio qui aurait été pris le jour même. Cela est à mettre au conditionnel. Je vous ferai un petit rapport de mon enquête.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Thank you, barthé.
    Translation post #26:
    "Hello friends

    P-38J-15-LO of 1st Lt.Levey Rolland E fell on the commune of Ruffigné at the place "La Perouse" I have three to four witnesses who can confirm it to me. On the day of the crash of the aircraft there was a civilian loss made by the German army. I live about twenty kilometers from the crash. Tomorrow Thursday afternoon, I leave to do a little investigation on the ground with the person who found the engine drain plug. Today even I have just received that there would be in a farm with the surrounding of the point of crash the radio which would have been taken the same day. This is conditional. I will give you a little report of my inquiry."

    Gary, from the map provided the crash site is 1.8 km nearly directly south of Ruffigné, coordinates 47.739858, -1.487325

    Attached are a couple more aerials showing more area, with barthé35's original.
    Ruffigné_by_barthé35.png
    Crash site P38J, 43-28424 Lt Levey, 5 July 1944.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
  8. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

  9. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

  10. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Good point Jaap! Some of this was covered in the other Levey thread but should be repeated here (if there were forum moderators these would have already been merged - the good old days are gone) The 5 page MACR 6674 starts here on fold3 https://www.fold3.com/image/29099366 Lt Levey's wing man places his belly landing 3 miles N/W of Châteaubriant, actually it was 5 miles. According to the report by 2nd Lt. Ernest L Baillargeon, Lt Levey bellied in (30 Miles / 48 km N/W of target) successfully with little damage and no fire, so the ship was pretty much in one piece.

    By 5 July 1944 the invasion had not completely secured the Cherbourg peninsula, and with force penetration barely to Caen.
    MACR_6674_Page_3_43-28424, Lt Levey.jpg
    43-28424 Target - Loire River bridge at Ancenis.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
  11. barthé35

    barthé35 New Member

    Bonjour les amis

    Voilà j’ai été sur le terrain faire une petite enquette avec Monsieur RENAUD Jean Marie. Il avait 6 ans le jour du crash de notre P-38J-15-LO du 1er Lt.Levey Rolland E.

    L’endroit que je vous ai dit auparavant est complètement faux pour les images. Il est bien tombé sur la commune de Ruffigné dans le champ de " La Pérouse " en bordure de la route du lieudit de «La Herviais».

    Pour la radio qui aurait été prise par un jeune homme cela est confirmer, elle a été bien prise dans l’avion. Je dois retourner voir deux autres témoins encore plus âgés, dont un est le jeune homme qui a pris cette radio. Ce jeune homme il prit donc cette radio et la ramène chez sa grand-mère. La grand-mère ne voulut pas la garder pour cause de représailles de l’armer Allemand. Elle la reporta à la mairie de la commune de Ruffigné. Ou les Allemands ont confisqué la radio.

    Je vous remets quelques clichés schématique de l’endroit exact de ce crashe

    https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/18/60/82/01/uu10.jpg[/img]

    https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/18/60/82/01/as10.jpg[/img]

    [​IMG]

    Voici trois photos ou fut arrêté brusquement le p-38 du Lt.Levey Rolland E. l’avion se trouvait derrière c’est arbre qu’il coucha. L’agriculteur après le passage de l’armer Allemande qui ont enlevé l’épave du P-38 pour la ferraille. L’agriculteur a été obligé de scier c’est arbre comme on le voit sur le clicher. Suite à cela l’arbre n’est pas mort il a repoussé sur la souche.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Monsieur RENAUD Jean Marie au pied de l’arbre qui nous montre la coupe de l’ancien arbre ou le P-38 coucha

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. barthé35

    barthé35 New Member

  13. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    barthé35,
    Thank you for your update and wonderful crash site photos and areal maps. Outstanding P-38 graphic used in your maps; Well Done!

    The updated crash site coordinates are 47.745400, -1.489444 this is only a half mile from the earlier location and is about 3/4 of a mile south of Ruffigné.

    Translation posts #31, 32:
    "Hello friends

    So I was on the ground doing a little investigation with Monsieur RENAUD Jean Marie. He was 6 years old on the day of the crash of our 1st Lt.Levey Rolland E. P-38J-15-LO

    The place I told you before is completely wrong for the pictures. It fell on the commune of Ruffigné in the field of "La Pérouse" along the road to the place of "La Herviais".

    For the radio that would have been taken by a young man this is confirm, she was well taken in the plane. I have to go back to see two other witnesses even older, one of whom is the young man who took that radio. This young man took this radio and brought her back to his grandmother. The grandmother did not want to keep her because of the German armed retaliation. She brought it back to the town hall of the commune of Ruffigne. Or the Germans confiscated the radio.

    I give you some schematic snapshots of the exact location of this crash

    Here are three photos where the p-38 of Lt.Levey Rolland E. was abruptly arrested. The plane was behind that tree that he slept. The farmer after the passage of the German arming who removed the wreck of the P-38 for the scrap. The farmer was forced to saw it is tree as seen on the cliché. Following this the tree did not die it pushed back on the stump.

    [IMG]
    Mr. RENAUD Jean Marie at the foot of the tree that shows us the cut of the old tree or the P-38 couch
    [IMG]
    [IMG]
    [IMG]"
     

    Attached Files:

  14. barthé35

    barthé35 New Member

    Bonjour les amis

    Voilà

    J’ai encore un P-38 J-10-LO codé F5 et immatriculé 42-67684 tombé le 10Juillet 1944 Ligné 44

    Voici quelques détails sur la perte du lieutenant Hart. Son vol à basse altitude situé au sud-est de l'aérodrome herbeux de Ligné (30 kms au nord-est de Nantes), nous devions mitrailler ce qui ressemblait être un camouflage d'un Heinkel 111. Peut-être que c'était un piège, en tout cas, les quatre P-38 ont été arrosés avec des tirs de la flak d'armes légères, ce que nous avions jamais connu jusqu'à présent.

    Le lieutenant Hart, volant en tant que leader dans le deuxième élément du vol, son P-38 a été touché et il était en feu. Il a grimpé pour prendre de l'altitude et a il sauté, lors de son atterrissage il était indemne, tombé à la périphérie de la ville de Ligné. Quand il a été vu la dernière fois, le populaire et coloré Jerry Hart était debout saluant son chef d'escadrille (le capitaine Nuckols) qui a suivi la scène d'en bas. Il a finalement été capturé et il est devenu un prisonnier de guerre allemand.

    Jerry Hart a rappelé plus tard son histoire comme suit :

    "Tard dans l'après-midi du 19 juillet, nous avons été pour du mitraillage au sud de la Loire. Mon avion a été gravement endommagé par la flak et il était en feu. Mon plan de sauvetage a été un succès, sauf que j'ai été immédiatement fait prisonnier par la Luftwaffe, le commandant de l'aérodrome que nous venions de mitrailler. Lui et son chauffeur étaient garés sous un arbre au bord du terrain et qui nous attendait. J'ai été emmené à un point d'attente, une vieille école de pilotage française, où j'ai été détenu avec un équipage de B-17 en attente d'un transport vers l'Allemagne. Pendant ce temps-là que là, nous avons été bombardés par des B-26 et le bâtiment où nous étions a été rasé, mais c'est une autre histoire.

    J'ai été emmené de Nantes à Paris, et encore une fois nous avons été mitraillés deux fois par les Américains en cours de route. Ensuite, nous avons envoyé à Frankfurt Am Main à un Luft Dulag (camp d'interrogatoire). Du Dulag Luft, j'ai été emmené au Stalag Luft III, à Sagan, en Allemagne. Juste après Noël 1944, face à la percée russe, les Allemands nous ont fait défiler sur le Stalag sur trois jours en mars à la gare de ravitaillement le centre opérationnel, le plus proche de Priebus. De là, nous avons été transportés dans un camp de prisonniers entre Ratisbonne et Augsbourg, près de Munich appelé Moosburg (Stalag Luft VIIa). Lorsque les forces du général Patton ont fait irruption dans ce domaine, j'ai été libéré et je suis retourné aux États-Unis. "

    Quant à son P-38 il est donné tombé à 200 mt à l'Est de la commune de Ligné à 18h18.

    Le 1st Lt. Hart Gerald A est né en 1922. Lieu de naissance, Newfoundland/Labrador. Comté de résidence Wayne Comté du Michigan.

    CAMP POW / Stalag 7A Moosburg Bavaria 48-12 (Work Camps 3324-46 Krumbachstrasse 48011, Work Camp 3368 Munich 48-11).

    Récit de Gary Koch (474th FG Association Historian).

    Je reviens vers vous, pour savoir s’il avait une lettre individuelle. Nous le connaissons que sur le code F5. Pourriez-vous me confirmer son code exact . Merci

    Cette chute se trouve à 60 kilomètres de mon domicile

    Je vous contacterai certainement souvent car nous avons plus de 227 pertes d’appareil américain sur nos 5 départements Breton

    Bonne journée à vous tous
     
  15. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Thank you, barthé.

    First a matter of forum etiquette. When starting a new topic like this one for Lt. Hart it is preferred that you start a new thread for aircraft in the 474FG that would be found here http://www.forum.armyairforces.com/forums/474th-fg.274/ top right of page Post New Thread, in that way each stands alone, and easier to find in later searches.

    I do not know what Lt. Hart's fuselage code was, hopefully Gary Koch can find this answer for you. For some reference the 6 page MACR 7160 starts here on fold3 https://www.fold3.com/image/28720460

    Sadly, 1st Lt. Gerald Adle "Jerry" Hart, O-755937 has recently folded his wings on 26 February 2017 https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=176855144

    Translation post #34
    "Hello friends

    here

    I still have a P-38 J-10-LO coded F5 and registered 42-67684 fallen on July 10, 1944 Lined 44

    Here are some details of the loss of Lieutenant Hart. Its low-level flight located south-east of the grassy aerodrome of Ligné (30 km northeast of Nantes), we had to strafe what looked like a camouflage of a Heinkel 111. Maybe it was A trap, in any case, the four P-38s were watered with shots from the flak of light weapons, which we had never known before.

    Lieutenant Hart, flying as leader in the second element of the flight, his P-38 was hit and it was on fire. He climbed to take altitude and he jumped, when he landed he was unscathed, fell on the outskirts of the town of Ligné. When it was seen last time, the popular and colorful Jerry Hart was standing waving his squadron leader (Captain Nuckols) who followed the scene from below. He was eventually captured and he became a German prisoner of war.

    Jerry Hart later recalled his story as follows:

    "Late in the afternoon of July 19th, we were for strafing south of the Loire, my plane was badly damaged by the flak and it was on fire, and my rescue plan was a success, except that I was immediately taken prisoner by the Luftwaffe, the commander of the aerodrome we had just machine-gunned, and he and his driver were parked under a tree at the edge of the field and were waiting for us. A French pilot school, where I was detained with a B-17 crew waiting to be transported to Germany, during which time we were bombarded by B- 26 and the building where we were was shaved, but that's another story.

    I was taken from Nantes to Paris, and again we were machine-gunned twice by the Americans along the way. Then we sent to Frankfurt Am Main at a Luft Dulag (interrogation camp). From Dulag Luft, I was taken to the Stalag Luft III in Sagan, Germany. Just after Christmas 1944, in the face of the Russian breakthrough, the Germans scoured the Stalag for three days in March at the refueling station, the operational center nearest to Priebus. From there, we were transported to a prison camp between Regensburg and Augsburg, near Munich called Moosburg (Stalag Luft VIIa). When General Patton's forces broke into this area, I was released and returned to the United States. "

    As for its P-38 it is given fallen to 200 mt to the East of the commune of Ligné at 18:18.

    1st Lt. Hart Gerald A was born in 1922. Place of birth, Newfoundland / Labrador. County of Residence Wayne County of Michigan.

    CAMP POW / Stalag 7A Moosburg Bavaria 48-12 (Work Camps 3324-46 Krumbachstrasse 48011, Work Camp 3368 Munich 48-11).

    Narrative by Gary Koch (474th FG Historian Association).

    I come back to you, to know if he had an individual letter. We know it only on code F5. Can you confirm his exact code? Thank you

    This fall is 60 kilometers from my home

    I will certainly contact you often as we have more than 227 American casualties on our 5 Breton Departments

    Good day to you all"
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017

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