Lt. P.H. Scanlon Crew, 450th BG, MACR 3206, 02/23,1944, Austria

Discussion in '450th BG - Manduria' started by Chris A, Oct 31, 2016.

  1. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Thank you, Rolland.
    Wels seems an interesting I.P. with its large marshalling yard (well AAA defended).
    IP; Wels to Steyer.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
  2. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    Is was probably was one of the lakes or a bend in the river outside of Wels. You are right, you would not think they would want to go and turn over a heavily defended area.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2017
  3. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 25, 2017
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  4. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

  5. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Thank you, Jaap.
    Another Austrian article about the "Leaky Tub" with another new crash image. The question remains is this "Leaky Tub" or and "Example" photo of one of the other many downed Liberators in Austria?

    [Crash photo redacted per request by Austrian Historian Christian Arzberger]
    Request terminated.

    Image reinstated as being public domain material. Image remains unidentified by any Austrian source.
    unknown American bomber crash site , Austria [2].gif

    Edit: Additionally if this is NOT "Leaky Tub" is it known what Liberator this is and where it crashed. In either event Leaky Tub or not would higher resolution copies of these photos be made available please.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017
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  6. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

    Grogan MIA article
     

    Attached Files:

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  7. tothfzs

    tothfzs New Member

    Dear RSwank!
    I forgot to write it down in my previous post, F/O T-**** serial number change in promotion and then even heavier to find somebody Class book.
     
  8. Chris A

    Chris A New Member

  9. Chris A

    Chris A New Member

    Please delete this post. We do not have the permission from the owner of the pictures (Churcharchive of Bad Wimsbach) to publish it in this forum.
    Chris
     
  10. Lucky Partners

    Lucky Partners Well-Known Member

    Hi Chris,

    Not sure I follow your logic, he has not posted any pictures or copyright material. He has only posted a link to the location where the material may be seen. This material is posted on the open internet and can be seen by anyone who does a simple google search. I don't see where any permission would be involved. If the owner intended to restrict access they would not have posted it on the internet in the first place. Please correct me if I am wrong.

    Interestingly, a different copy of the photo that appears on the questioned link also appears in post #41 of this thread and is credited to an entirely different source. So clearly this photo is out there in public space.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
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  11. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    Maybe if Scott would remove the photos (which appear to be the same ones) that he posted in posts 77 and 85 we would be OK. I think the photo in post 41 (of the crew) is not the problem, it is the crash photos. The crew photo came off the bomb group website.

    I think giving the link to the photos is OK (as Airwar did), but actually "publishing" the photos is the problem. I think Chris has hopes of including the photos in a write-up he is working on but he may be dealing with copyright issues with authorities there. I guess I don't want to complicate things for him at this point.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
  12. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
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  13. Lucky Partners

    Lucky Partners Well-Known Member

    We have a longstanding policy of not posting material owned by others without proper attribution and/or permission. But Chris only referred to the internet link itself as posted by Jaap, not specific pictures elsewhere in the thread. Perhaps he might clarify this.

    That said, I tend to agree with Scott, absent anything stated on the web site to the contrary this certainly looks like public domain material.

    In addition, in the lower left corner of the page is a link to a PDF:
    www.bad-wimsbach.at/system/web/GetDocument.ashx?fileid=1302395
    This material looks familiar but also note that it does not provide any indication of authorship or claim of copyright.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
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  14. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

    Davis article
     

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  15. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

    Chris,this forum is to help people who asking for information and to Honor the youngmen who gaves
    their lives, so we can live in Freedom. When there is copyright on photos they had to made an C under
    that photo. I saw this in the article ;

    '' Je mehr dazu bekannt ist, umso interessanter kan dieses ereignis fur die nachtwelt beleuchtet werden ''.

    And thats where this forum is stending for. When the Pfarrer has problems with the posting article then
    he can send me an email : beervanvermeer@kpnmail.nl

    Freundlichen Grussen aus die Niederlande,

    Jaap Vermeer ( Grosskreutz Oranien-Nassau )
     
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  16. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Christian,

    What exactly is the problem here? I do hope you understand that I completely disagree that there is any copyright © protection for these already internet published crash photos now existing in public domain. Are you actually attempting to sensor forum member (Airwar - Jaap)? Or do you seek to sensor the entire internet? Or are you attempting to sensor me for republishing these now "public Domain" crash photos? The internet article in question http://www.bad-wimsbach.at/Zeit_Zeugen_gesucht_ appears to have been initiated by a Bad Wimsbach-Neydharting, town/city/village official namely Kontaktaufnahme GV Norbert Fischer. Kontaktaufnahme does not translate well however appears to be "Culture Committee Chairman".

    The earlier article with a crash photo http://badwimsbach.ooevp.at/index.php?id=1201&tx_news_pi1[controller]=News&tx_news_pi1[action]=detail&tx_news_pi1[news]=71620&tx_news_pi1[day]=15&tx_news_pi1[month]=2&tx_news_pi1[year]=2017&cHash=abd66cb25776c5edd4c26f4d86875781 was also initiated by the same person Culture Committee Chairman GV Norbert Fischer searching for American bomber crash photos, town folk stories and information, working in concert with two historians - assuming he is referring to you as one of these historians.

    Just as disturbing in both of these articles seeking local Bad Wimsbach-Neydharting citizen aid in finding "photos, crash stories, and information" it is also noted that this proposed B-24 bomber crash will be offered to the public in an "exhibition in" the "Pfarrheim" to be organized around the Austrian National Day. Pfarrheim is another word that does not translate well however appears to be "Parish Office" as in of a church. On that topic it seems the major church of Bad Wimsbach is https://www.dioezese-linz.at/pfarre...ch/kirchlicheeinrichtungen/article/16744.html (please correct if wrong, and you are referring to a different church).

    Now this forum is informed by you in posts #88 and 89 (in a most peculiar way - delete/sensor this post) and you inform that "this" church "archive" has objected to the use of these two photos citing they were used without their permission. Balderdash - search that translation on your own! If any of this is at all accurate it does not speak well for your planned celebration for the Scanlon Crew to be exhibited in this church Parish Office of all places, who obviously (from your request to delete) are no longer supporting this Scanlon Crew memorial effort supposedly scheduled for 26 October "Austrian National Day".

    I will now circle back to my initial query here which is; what exactly is the problem here? Without further explanation by you leads to speculation. Are there Nazi sympathizers in this church archive organization? Are there shy Austrians within this church organization who would rather turn a blind eye to the events of WW II over and in Austria. I hope you can offer some further explanation for your posts #88 and 89 and the reason behind them with clarity. Frankly right now the speculated reasoning has a Nazi stink to it.

    Furthermore, who ever released these two photos to the internet has placed them in the public domain without source citing. That can be overcome by citing a known source which you have done poorly without specificity other than offering this: "Churcharchive of Bad Wimsbach" which is now speculated to be St. Stephan, Catholic Church Bad Wimsbach-Neydharting. (if incorrect please advise).

    Additionally you were asked a question by me in my posts #77 and #85 if these crash photos were in fact images of 41-29226 "leaky Tub". You have still NOT as yet answered my questions about these photos and worse tilted off in this remarkable direction of attempting to suppressing these images with your post request to Jaap to delete the link he posted leading to these photos. We have an expression here in the United States "that dog just won't hunt"; one option is to shoot that dog.

    To refresh your memory here are those two [2] images again (with citing, accurate or not with zero useful aid by you as to how the rightful owner might be if there truly is one, beyond its in my archive so its mine mentality) are these or are these not images of 41-29226 "leaky Tub". Unredacted here with purpose again asking the same questions AGAIN. And bringing into question support by this member body of your future research projects if this his how you run your research (memorial?) projects. I had also requested higher resolution copies of these two images along with proper crash site identification. Obviously now this was an idiotic request on my part thinking you might be helpful. It is further expected you will NOT reply here. Seems a one way sharing path with you, less likely to be repeated in the future.

    A sad turn of events with all this fuss over two "low resolution", "poor quality", "unidentified crash" photos. The church archive should be ashamed of their conduct, as should you for passing on this stupidity! I look forward to your earliest response.

    Unidentified American bomber crash site , Austria [1]
    unknown American bomber crash site , Austria.jpg
    Speculated photo source: St. Stephan, Catholic Church (archive) Bad Wimsbach-Neydharting, Austria

    Unidentified American bomber crash site , Austria [2]
    unknown American bomber crash site , Austria [2].gif
    Speculated photo source: St. Stephan, Catholic Church (archive) Bad Wimsbach-Neydharting, Austria

    The offending church archive location with coordinates, earlier link offered contact info for those wishing a more personal encounter.
    church of controversy, Bad Wimsbach-Neydharting, Austria.jpg

    Haben Sie einen wunderschönen Tag
    Scott M
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017
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