Lt. P.H. Scanlon Crew, 450th BG, MACR 3206, 02/23,1944, Austria

Discussion in '450th BG - Manduria' started by Chris A, Oct 31, 2016.

  1. Barry S Rulnick

    Barry S Rulnick New Member

    Thank you very much for the information.
     
  2. Barry S Rulnick

    Barry S Rulnick New Member

    With deepest regret, I was just informed by Steven Rulnick ( Nephew of S/SGT Sidney Rulnick ) that his Father,
    Richard ( Isaac ) Rulnick passed away on April 22, 2015.
    Richard was the last remaining sibling of Sidney Rulnick.

    "Richard Rulnick attended Manhattan College in NYC, and proudly served in World War II as a Staff Sergeant in the U.S. 6th Army’s Pacific Theater of Operations. Rich was the recipient of many combat awards and medals for his notable military service. He was a lifetime member of the Veterans of Foreign War and a member of the American Legion".
    From his Obituary

    The one and only time that I met and knew that I had an Uncle Richard was in the Fall of 2009 thanks to a Cousin that I found by chance.

    Since that visit in 2009, I tried many times to reach out and stay in touch; but, unfortunately, Richard and his family remained reclusive and refused to accept and/or receive calls/correspondence with this few exception from his son, Steven.

    I regret all those years not knowing any of my Dad's siblings and their families.

    With the exception of his brother Joe, My Dad never mentioned anything about his brothers.

    Barry Rulnick
     
  3. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    I just got off the phone after talking to a relative of 2nd Lt George Strong. We are now in contact with seven families. I learned some new things with much more, I am sure, to come.

    The relative related, for example, that the reason Rulnick and Lanteigne were on the flight is because Swift and Levin had gotten frostbite on the previous day's mission.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
  4. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    I just received an e-mail from a daughter of Lanteigne, so that makes the 8th family to respond. The only remaining people that I have tried to contact is a niece and nephew of Lt. Forbes.
     
  5. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    I received a reply today from the niece of Lt Forbes so contact has been made with 9 of the 11 crew families. There are no known close relatives for the remaining two families, so the family search is complete. A memorial service is planned for October 26th in Bad Wimsbach. October 26 is Austrian National Day.
     
  6. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Rolland,
    Congratulations on another extremely successful crew member research project. With full respect you remain the best head hunter I have ever known always ready to help find those who would remain missing without your dedicated efforts. Congratulations are also in order for Christian Arzberger for initiating this research topic on this forum, and more importantly organizing the future memorial dedication for the Scanlon Crew at Bad Wimsbach-Neydharting, Austria. Back in post #28 you offered an example Christian's previous contributions to AAF memorials in Austria. Here is another link which offers heart felt thanks for Christian's effort http://www.301bg.com/documents/St. Jakob Memorial Dedication(2)2.pdf these memorials do not just happen on their own, it requires dedication to task as offered by you and Christian in this Scanlon Crew memorial effort.

    Hope no one minds a minor recap for the record to highlight Rolland's head hunting skills. The subject aircraft is B-24H-5-CF-41-29226, with the less than helpful 13 page MACR 3206 https://www.fold3.com/image/37109230, downed by Nazi fighter aircraft 23 February 1944. This Liberator had a 10 man crew and one passenger/observer. This Scanlon Crew is listed below with a highlighted note showing successful contact by Rolland with crew member progeny, 9 out of 11 is most remarkable. I hope all are able to send representatives to this Bad Wimsbach memorial dedication 26 October 2017.

    2nd Lt Philip H Scanlon (P), O-749327, KIA (New York), [contact]
    2nd Lt Glen M Davis (CP), O-689947, KIA(Texas) [contact]
    2nd Lt George C Strong, Jr. (N), O-809757, KIA (Massachusetts) [contact]
    2nd Lt Donald A Forbes (B), O-688952, KIA (Missouri) [contact]
    S/Sgt John H Grogan (ETTG), 14123447, KIA (North Carolina) [no contact]
    T/Sgt Alphonse J Lanteigne (RO), 31188207, POW/RTD/EUS (Connecticut) [contact]
    S/Sgt Kenneth G King (G), 12023674, KIA (New York) [contact]
    S/Sgt Sidney Rulnick (G). 31215436, KIA (Massachusetts) [contact]
    S/Sgt William J Heinegger, Jr. (BTG), 13136189, KIA (Maryland) [contact]
    S/Sgt Frank J Dzurik (G), 31167908, KIA (Connecticut) [contact]
    S/Sgt Bernard Kellerman (Passenger/Observer) 32639858, KIA (New York) [no contact]

    Well orchestrated my friend; you remain the Wizard of Holland Michigan. Please keep this forum informed as to memorial final appearance and location (map coordinates please) in Bad Wimsbach, Austria. Who would not love to visit beautiful northern Austria in October

    Scott M
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017 at 11:04 AM
  7. Chris A

    Chris A New Member

    Dear Scott,
    Thank you so much for your recognition of our research activities. I absolutely agree, Rolland did and still does an incredible job. He is also invited to join the dedication ceremony in Austria on Oct.26th 2017. I hope that he and many of the relatives will come to unveil the memorial and visit the planned display.
    Greetings from Austria
    Christian
     
  8. tothfzs

    tothfzs New Member

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  9. Chris A

    Chris A New Member

    Thank you, great pics.
    Best
    Chris
     
  10. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Images from Class books referenced by "tothfzs" post #68:

    2nd Lt Glen M Davis (CP), O-689947
    2nd Lt Glen M Davis.jpg
    2nd Lt Donald A Forbes (B), O-688952
    2nd Lt Donald A Forbes.jpg
     
    RSwank likes this.
  11. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    I wonder where George Strong (Navigator) was commissioned? Maybe another class book photo can be found. An individual photo of him would complete the Officer's photos (as Scanlon's is on findagrave. Grogan's photo is also on findagrave.
     
  12. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Rolland, do any of the family members contacted have a higher resolution crew photo? Or maybe the 450BG Association.

    This would appear to be 2nd Lt George C Strong, Jr. (N), O-809757 enlistment record https://aad.archives.gov/aad/record...26&tf=F&q=11081498&bc=sl&rpp=10&pg=1&rid=8309 entering service on 15 June 1942, ASN: 11081498, the dates and info fit with his findagrave page https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=49359537; might aid in finding a photo. Note: his name includes a Jr. suffix not recorded on the MACR.
    George C Strong, 11081498 enlistment 15June1942.jpg

    Less than desirable cropped image from the crew photo.
    2nd Lt George C Strong, Jr. (N), O-809757.jpg

    Edit: These copies are a "little" clearer
    leakytub[1].jpg
    Lt Strong[2].jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017 at 1:03 PM
    Chris A likes this.
  13. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    George C Strong, Jr graduated in the class of 1939, Roslindale High School (MA). Unfortunately, he is not pictured in the Senior Class photos. He is mentioned again in the 1946 yearbook in their "In Memoriam" section, again no photo. This is from the 1939 Class Book.
    RoslindaleHS1939.png

    He was in the class of 1943 at the University of Vermont (listed in the 1941 yearbook). Not sure he stayed until graduation since Scott's post above has him enlisting in 1942.

    Chris and I are working with the families regarding photos, etc. so we will see. He has been working with the 450th BG people.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017 at 2:26 PM
  14. tothfzs

    tothfzs New Member

    George Strong (Navigator) based on the first number identity number O-8***** state Georgia, Navigator School. http://aafcollection.info site mostly collection Texas state. 2nd Lt Philip H Scanlon based on identity number pilot training in Texas Class 43-F or Class 43-G, but the scanned yearbooks not found. Unfortunately it is a class yearbooks - primary and basic pilot training - where there is only name , no address it is not possible to identify it requested person.
     
  15. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Newspaper clipping from 1948 (no photo)
    2nd Lt George C Strong, Jr. 1948 news clipping.jpg
     
  16. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    tothfzs
    Starting at George's serial number, Foster S Stolp, who has serial number O-809756 (one less than George) received his navigator wings on Aug 14, 1943 (according to a newspaper article).

    Since these numbers were typically assigned sequentially within a class, I think Stolp was in the same class a George. Knowing the graduation date could get us to a particular class number (but not the school yet).

    Update: Jay Suldan had serial number one greater than George and Jay earned his wings at Selman field in August, 1943 according to a Pittsburgh paper. Unfortunately, it appears the aafcollection site does not have the Selman August Class book (probably looking for 43-11 or 43-12).
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017 at 3:07 PM
  17. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Christian, and Rolland too,
    I am a little confused and hope either of you can help. Would you please aid me with the crash site map coordinates for 41-29226 "Leaky Tub"? I never paid much attention to this matter as Christian's query here was specifically related toward the Scanlon crew member family research, which has progress quite well.

    Searching for a better crew photo this morning I discovered this article also requesting research aid this "Leaky Tub" topic: http://badwimsbach.ooevp.at/index.php?id=1201&tx_news_pi1[controller]=News&tx_news_pi1[action]=detail&tx_news_pi1[news]=71620&tx_news_pi1[day]=15&tx_news_pi1[month]=2&tx_news_pi1[year]=2017&cHash=abd66cb25776c5edd4c26f4d86875781
    English translation
    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://badwimsbach.ooevp.at/index.php?id=1201&tx_news_pi1%5Bcontroller%5D=News&tx_news_pi1%5Baction%5D=detail&tx_news_pi1%5Bnews%5D=71620&tx_news_pi1%5Bday%5D=15&tx_news_pi1%5Bmonth%5D=2&tx_news_pi1%5Byear%5D=2017&cHash=abd66cb25776c5edd4c26f4d86875781&prev=search

    Here is where my confusion begins. First I was not aware a crash site photo existed, as exhibited in this article. Second this Article/photo is labeling the crash location as Bergham, Austria which is about 21 miles / 34 km northeast of Bad Wimsbach. If the crash actually occurred at Bergham, why is the memorial being placed at Bad Wimsbach?

    In trying to solve this question myself the MACR3206 was revisited and again is a less than helpful document. The referenced last sighted coordinates 48° 02' 43 N 14° 24' E and map are useless (highly inaccurate) placing 41-29226 slightly "west" Steyr. Lt Edward T Pickard witness statement: In the target area (Scanlon) plane dropped out of formation in a gentle dive (under control) maybe two engines on fire heading east, one chute seen (later known; T/Sgt Lanteigne). As such this MACR record does not answer the question of where Leaky Tub finally came to earth, where I hope you will help.

    Thanks,
    Scott M

    PostScript: Is this a 41-29226 "leaky Tub crash site photo? And if so, is it located at Bergham or Bad Wimsbach?

    [Crash photo redacted per request by Austrian Historian Christian Arzberger]

    Overview: Target Steyr to these two possible crash site locations
    Steyr - Bad Wimsbach - Bergham.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017 at 2:58 PM
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  18. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    The Bergham of the crash site is here: 48.043765, 13.867777 very close to Bad-Wimsbach.

    Chris must have posted (or had posted) that photo as part of his efforts in working on the write-up of the crash. I believe he might be trying to gather information from the locals. He is dealing with the authorities, Mayor, photo copyrights, etc. I am not sure where he stands on all of that, I have been concentrating on the US families search.

    The MACR is wrong about the plane making it to or near to Steyr. It was in fact one of the first planes to go down in the fighter attacks, before the formation even made it to the IP.

    On fold3.com take a look at the first crash on this page:

    https://www.fold3.com/image/38649295


    23 February 44 at 12:10, B-24 Liberator LAKY (sic) TUB, Bergham Community, Wimsbach . KSU 790
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2017 at 3:59 PM
  19. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Thank you, Rolland.
    You always offer clarity when my bulb is dim. These new Bergham coordinates make much more sense only 3 km southwest of Bad-Wimsbach. The fold3 downing page is most interesting and new to me. The downing time here 1210 is nearly identical to the MACR time 1209. Maybe everything is relative traveling at several hundred MPH with this Bergham only 25 miles west of Steyr. Do you think this falls into the realm of Lt Edward T Pickard witness statement (in the target area), probably so the group seemed a bit busy approaching the target.

    On the "new" fold3 page there is a reference number in the last column KSU 790. Is this a German document similar to the KU reports and if so is there a related document available, or perhaps a "credit" report for the Luftwaffe pilot?

    As to the photo from this Austrian article perhaps this was an "example" photo of what this "leaky Tub" research was hoping to find from locals. hopefully Christian will answer if this is an actual photo of "Leaky Tub" or rather an "example" photo from a different crash.

    Much obliged for you help,
    Scott M

    Corrected overview of crash site
    Bergham-Bad Wimsbach 41-29226 overview.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017 at 9:13 AM
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  20. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    I think Pickard was looking at a different plane that did go down near Steyr. He says: "From an examination of the Groups Operations' diagram of the formation, I believe this ship was piloted by Lieutenant Scanlon." The formation started to break apart at the first attack. I think they reformed somewhat but since several planes were then gone, ships moved into open positions in the formation. I think maybe Pickard was looking at who "should" have been in that position according to the diagram, not who "was" in that position.

    The 450th lost some 8 planes that day. I think Scanlon's was one of the first to go down. Things were very confused after the first attack from what I have read. I have gone through all the MACRs and even read some accounts from other bomb groups on the same mission. (The IP was Wels.) I think KSU is a KU report but done for the areas of Austria and the Balkans and maybe? Czechoslovakia.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2017 at 5:37 PM

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