Fliegermorde

Discussion in 'Prisoners of War, MIA, & Internees' started by Airwar, Jun 23, 2016.

  1. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

    B-24H # 42-52160 ''Ski Nose'', 392nd BG / 579th BS,July 7th 1944.MACR 7369

    According to War Crimes Trials at Dachau 1945-1948, Case 12-1745 covers Lt.Levine and Sgt's
    Dinsmore and Chojecki. After their capture they were held in custody at Hohenerxleben,six miles
    NW of Bernburg. From there they were taken to Kleinzerbst and shot in the woods and were then
    buried in a common grave in Kleinzerbst. Two Germans were sentenced to death by hanging for this crime.

    Jaap
     
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  2. BMBazooka

    BMBazooka Active Member

    I'd like to announce that the community of Klein Zerbst will install a memory plate at the cemetary. The ceremony, including the presentation of the film of Nils Werner, will be in November of this year.
     
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  3. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Fliegermorde = "Aviator murders" Maybe eventually we will all read German but until then try to keep this "Fliegermorde" usage in mind. Generally POW's KIA "after" becoming POW's of the Nazis.
    MACR 7369, 48 pages starts here on fold3 https://www.fold3.com/image/28721013
    Trial transcript here http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/dachautrial/fs131.pdf
    Trial synopsis:
    File Number:
    US129
    Review Date: 460424
    Case Number: 12-1745 (US vs. Fritz Pohla et al)
    Crime Category: War Crimes
    Accused:
    Pohla, Fritz - Death Sentence Vogler, Ernst Otto- Death Sentence
    Court: General Military Government Court at Ludwigsburg, Germany 460403
    Country where the crime had been committed: Germany
    Crime Location: Kleinzerbst
    Crime Date: 440707
    Victim: POW’s
    Nationality: American
    Agency: Police, Kripo Dessau
    Subject of the proceeding: On orders of Dessau Kripo chief, Arthur Jetzinger, the accused collected three American airmen, who were in the custody of the burgomeister of Hohen-Erxleben or Gerwitz, and shot them in the woods near Kleinzerbst

    Target: Airfield Bernburg (german: Flugplatz Bernburg, also known as Fliegerhorst Bernburg) and Ju87, Ju88 production facility was actually 3 mile NW of Bernburg http://www.forgottenairfields.com/germany/saxony-anhalt/salzlandkreis/bernburg-s381.html
    42-52160 B24BestWeb http://www.b24bestweb.com/ski-nose1.htm & http://www.b24bestweb.com/ski-nose2.htm

    Findagrave; It appears the bio author John Dowdy was unaware of the war crime, I have sent him an advisory message:
    2nd Lt. Samuel J. Levine, Navigator, ASN O-707287 http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=113665438
    S/Sgt. Walter F. Dinsmore, Flight Engineer, ASN 33252527 http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=77709198
    T/Sgt. John M. Chojecki, Radio Op. ASN 36355990 http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=56653697
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 20, 2016
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  4. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

    File about Jetzinger
     
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  5. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    For those forum members not in tune with this War Crimes case Arthur Jetzinger was chief of criminal police at Dessau, Germany (Police Chief). It was Arthur Jetzinger, a 54 year old, fat, white faced Nazi who ordered Fritz Pohla, and Ernst Otto-Vogler to kill Lt. Levine and Sgt's Dinsmore and Chojecki.

    As yet I have seen no adjudication for Arthur Jetzinger although as a Nazi contributor and instigator of this event should have been sentenced to death by hanging as well. I have seen at least one web site inference showing the sentences for Fritz Pohla, and Ernst Otto-Vogler were commuted from death by hanging to life Imprisonment. For the life of me (if true) I do not understand this mercy for those who had none for their victims at the times of their crimes.

    It should be understood that I am a hardliner in cases such as these, in these circumstance, and a strong supporter of capital punishment where proven appropriate. Comparatively wherein it would have been desirable for the Japanese to delayed surrender allowing for more nuclear weapons usage on that "Evil Empire" and that evil population!

    The Nazi (Germans in general during the war) in my humble opinion were little different than the Japanese and equally as "EVIL!!!". I'll stand down from suggested use of nuclear weapons over Germany but had they been ready in time they would have been used. This is unfortunately an indiscriminate weapon where Nazi and non-Nazi (if there really was such a thing??? after the war no one was a Nazi) would be casualties.

    For the genocide committed by the Nazis throughout this war some "nuking" would have been most justified, call it "Nazi Population Cleansing. The incendiary bombings of Dresden, Hamburg or Tokyo were little different outside of a little positive radiation enhancement. Something sure to please Heinrich L. Himmler and the Wannsee Conference had the tides of war been different and used against the UK and United States instead.

    That was a fun tangent! What ever happened to Arthur Jetzinger? Sent on an all expenses paid holiday to Argentina? Or did the United States military court at Dachau slap him on the hand. Sentence: don't ever do that again...!
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 20, 2016
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  6. BMBazooka

    BMBazooka Active Member

    As for Arthur Jetzinger fate: He escaped from a prisoner of war camp and lived under a false name in West Germany.
    He worked for the US in Frankfurt. My collegues and I suspected him to work for the CIA or the CIC, like Klaus Barbie, but there is no evidence right now for that. But its likely because a lot of his comrades from the Gestapo and Geheime Feldpolizei did this.
    Remember the TV documentary. It has not been uploaded on youtube, but I know that somebody thinks about translating and uploading it. There the fate of Jetzinger and his role in Paris in WW II is described.
     
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  7. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Thank you, Susanne.
    I did get carried away in my earlier post regarding the end of the Third Reich, obliged for you jumping over that misfortune to centering back on Arthur Jetzinger. You and your colleagues speculation that Jetzinger worked for the CIA, or might I add its predecessor the Office of Strategic Services (OSS) under direction of "wild" Bill Donovan is most interesting and quit plausible. With this discussion "we" collectively are leaving the confines of this AAF forum but the moderators (gate guards are no where to be seen); so lets continue.

    For more reasons than can be briefly named these were heady times in postwar Germany with the impending division of this country, east falling under ruthless Joseph Stalin Soviet rule (maybe worse than Hitler) and the west somewhat divided up in UK, US and French sectors eventually under NATO protection effective 4 April 1949. All this stated only to set the stage for the use of people like Arthur Jetzinger by the west, as distasteful as this must have been. On the east side of the "Iron Curtain" I am sure there were some good old Gestapo members with a little Stalin denazification found a happy home in the new East German environment. No US defense here but when fighting evil sometimes evil people are required such as Arthur Jetzinger now perhaps a "tool" toward fighting the Soviets. Klaus Barbie is an interesting example perhaps working for the OSS/CIA at one point but eventually hunted by Israeli Mossad and brought to justice for past bad Nazi deeds. I hope Arthur Jetzinger met the same end!

    Backing up to my earlier post let me be perfectly clear that while I lived in Germany during the 80's the German people were wonderful (and the beer was even better) where my only complaint was they spoke English better than my German making it difficult for me to learn the language in "full immersion" as I had hoped. Additionally I found most admirable beyond denazification at this late date in the 80's was that the West German people embracing and acknowledging this Nazi past and casting it off with the legal intent that this will never happen again in our country. This history is important in this sense often missed by the casual observer.

    Might I continue on this path for just a moment longer. The Japanese Empire postwar (under Douglas MacArthur) on the other hand took a whole different approach to cleansing the atrocities of that evil empire where the preferred method was collective historical erasure and forgetfulness of horrifying events as though they never occurred. This seemed to work well for the Japanese over many decades but recently there seems a hunger for the truth not taught in Japanese schools. Frankly I prefer the German method; this happened here in the past, here are the facts, lets work together to insure this never happens again!!!
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2016
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  8. BMBazooka

    BMBazooka Active Member

    Thank you Scott for your kind words.
    Thats what I was trying to say earlier: the mutual research, the work together, exchange of information or even exchange of feelings - doesn't it help us in the beginning of the 21st century? The story of the downed air men is not only the story of murder its also a story of courage and help as well. For the 1940ies. And its a story of sometimes healing in our time. When the relatives of the crew of the Junior visited Germany, one of them met one of the boys who shot their uncles down. Intensen moment, but one without negative feelings. Both were curious to meet each other.
    I like the communication, the exchance, maybe the thrill of the research. I have met so many interesting and fine people, on both sides of the ocean.
     
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  9. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Susanne,
    This is hopefully the wave of the future where we can only hope following generations will study and not repeat the errors and horrors of the past. Unfortunately for me a divided Germany is all I understand and can recall. This was by no means a war zone but nonetheless all of West Germany was on a war footing ready at moments notice to repel any aggression by the Soviet Warsaw Pact spiting Europe from the Baltic to the Aegean seas. I doubt I will be able to visit a unified Germany at my late age; only a dream in my cold war years.

    Frankly I miss the "Old" Soviet Union as an adversary, at least one knew who the enemy was. These days those lines of who the enemy is have become so blurred with racial and religious implications I long for the easier Soviet enemy days. And this is all way too far off AAF forum appropriate content time to close. But before closing did I mention I loved living in West Germany; while I was there my Nikon F-2 was almost always with me. Attached is my favorite street scene taken in Worms (grandmother and granddaughter?) out for a day of shopping. So it was, so it shall be remembered.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 21, 2016
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  10. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

  11. BMBazooka

    BMBazooka Active Member

    We were not lucky with that.
     
  12. BMBazooka

    BMBazooka Active Member

    Scott, a lot of people discuss the question who is friend of enemy nowadays in Germany too. An example: a part of the German people gives a great welcome-show to all migrants while others would like to throw them out immediately not only for financial reason but the fear of terror attacks, raping and sexual harrassment. People are calling their fellow country men and women Nazis and Racists if they have a different view on things. Everything is very complicated, and you still have the Russian and Ukrainian Crisis. Its not not easy at the beginning of the 21st century, to understand the world is going on, and I do not wonder why people tnd to various conspiracy theories. Among them Merkel as an US American puppet on a string. This is one of the reasons for the hate for the US in certain circles in Germany. They consider the migrant problem as a follow up of WWII, the Morgenthau Plan and George Soros.
     
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  13. BMBazooka

    BMBazooka Active Member

    As for Pohla and Vogler: Both were not hanged because they could prove that they obeyed to Jetzinger. who gave the order to kill. Another third one was spared because he said that he had tried not to shoot. If you look in the files they were all a bunch of liers. Who wonders? They knew they would hang.
    Unfortunately we were not able to find the families of Pohla and Vogler. But I know that one flier families and the nephew of Arthur Jetzinger are in contact. This little partb in history gives at least hope for the 21st century.
     
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  14. chris1

    chris1 Active Member

    Scott, too bad you lost your favorite foe ;)
    i confess i am guilty that happend. In '89 i helped to dissolve east germany and chose freedom.
    In '96 i visited the usa, i met nice people. i never could go there, if you retained west germany and iron curtain.
     
  15. chris1

    chris1 Active Member

    sorry, my english is not accomplished, i am still learning.
    i do not want to go off topic. anyhow it happend. i will answer your post as pm.
     
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  16. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Danke Chris,
    Meine deutsche Schreibfähigkeit sind ebenfalls schlecht. Ich würde mich freuen , mit Ihnen per PM kommunizieren.

    jedenfalls was passiert ist?
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2016
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  17. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

    Sheise Scott sie spreche sehr gut Deutsch, bist du auch ein Berliner :p

    Auf Wieder Schnitzel

    Die Grosse Hollander
     
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  18. BMBazooka

    BMBazooka Active Member

    I#d like you to inform that the remembrance ceremony will be held at the cemetary in KleinZerbst next Saturday. One inhabitant of Kleinzerbst donated a huge stone, others collected money for a plate. The German TV Station will show their documentary on Jetzinger with a discussion afterwards.
    The TV Documentary by Nils Werner has been uploaded on youtube and thanks to Samuel J. Levines nephew it has english subtitles now.
     
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  19. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

    Phoe....... Susanne thank you and a great respect for you and Leopold. I wishing you a good ceremony in Klein-Zerbst.
    And Leopold,take care of him,

    Jaap
     
  20. BMBazooka

    BMBazooka Active Member

    I do not know if he will attend.
    But I give your regards and respect to Nils and the mayor of Kleinzerbst.
     
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