Crash of 41-35002 B26C on November 3rd, 1943 at Bungay

Discussion in '323rd BG' started by Luc Vervoort, Jun 25, 2017.

  1. Luc Vervoort

    Luc Vervoort New Member

    Hi,

    On November 3, 1943 the B26 41-35002 RJ-S Mad Matter of 323 BG made a crashlanding at Bungay. Are the names and fate of the crew available ?

    Many thanks in advance and best regards

    Luc
     
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  2. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
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  3. Luc Vervoort

    Luc Vervoort New Member

    Hi Scott M,

    Thanks for the link, the names of the crew and the photograph.

    I also noticed that the name of the plane is Mad Hatter and not Mad Matter.

    Best regards

    Luc
     
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  4. Mutley

    Mutley Member

    OK.... So how do you cover this can of worms!!?
    First I looked for the ACLL (Air Crew Load List) but it seems that this is not in the mission records and I have yet to find it anywhere else! There is no specific individual aircraft report that I can find for this mission either!! It is not helped by the fact that the 323rd flew two missions this day, but the aircraft certainly crashed on the afternoon mission, to Amsterdam-Schipol airfield, as it is not shown as flying on the morning mission!! There is also narrative of the fighter attacks that happened as the aircraft left the coast of Holland, including the fighter claim, which appears to have been accepted, by the Tailgunner in 41-35002!
    Taking the individual surnames from the picture above, I then searched the MHS personnel database and found some crewmen that fitted those surnames, who had served with the 323rd BG and were also shown possibly with the 454th BS. None however lead me to find any, as yet databased, link between them all together!!
    Now we come to book references!
    "Losses of the 8th and 9th AF's", by Stan Bishop, shows this only as a salvaged aircraft for that date, and the place and nature of it's crash. I suspect this is where Luc has then tried to follow up on!? The Cummulative Loss Listings for the 8th and 9th Air Forces however do not list this salvaged until the 12th November 1943, but with the 8th Air Force. By that date however the 323rd BG were part of the 9th Air Force!! So one 'Worm' bites the dust, or should that be "Baits the Hook"!?
    With the now gathered information I then turned to "Marauder Men", by John Moench. Although there is no specific reference to the crash of the aircraft that I found in my quick search! It does at least give me good reason to believe that the following is most likely true!?

    ~~~~~~(STOP PRESS)~~~~~~

    (Just had another thought, but it will take me a day or so to sort out!! - Mutley)
     
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  5. Mutley

    Mutley Member

    ROLL PRESSES!!.... again!

    OK. So I think I can now be relatively, but NOT ABSOLUTELY!, certain that the following would have been the crew at the time of the crash.
    Pilot - R. C. Sills (See Note below!)
    Co-Pilot - E. O. Gayman
    N - H. H. Gleaton
    EG - J. P. Dawson
    RG - K. L. Edwards (Witness for Hutson aircraft claim)
    AG - L. J. Hutson (Claim for 1 enemy aircraft shot down! Claim accepted by review panel!)

    This is the crew set up that flew together for many of the missions prior to the crash and all but Sills are shown as being injured on that date. The ACLL's show Sills and Gayman listed in the same column of 'Pilot' in those ACLL's and as Sills became a Captain I would assume that he was the lead Pilot, not the Co-Pilot, for this 'Normal' 6 man crew set up. Many 323rd BG aircraft at this time were the 5 man, single pilot aircraft, hence the 2 'Pilots' in the same column!! There is the slight possibility that this is NOT true however, as other people that I have specifically researched, did fly with other crews at various times and for various reasons!

    IF I find, or am presented, ANY evidence that this is NOT true I will happily post an update, at the earliest opportunity. This is however as good as I can do with the information that I currently have available to me.

    The aircraft is said to have sustained category 'AC' damage, which says that it would have to have gone away to a full repair facility, rather than being done on site! They obviously decide that it was beyond even that however!! So would then have become Category 'E'.

    Hope this helps you Luc, !?

    And feel free to quote me on this.

    Mutley
     
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  6. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    Some possibilities on the men.

    Richard Carlton Sills: https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=3371542

    Ellsworth Owen Gayman https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=18760183

    Hutton Hollingworth Gleaton: https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=8447740
    A few lines from Gleaton's Obit:
    Founder of Ace Novelty and Printing Co. and a resident of Baton Rouge, he died at 2:42 p.m. Wednesday, April 3, 1996, at his residence. He was 78 and a native of Decatur, Ga. He was a U.S. Army Air Corps veteran of World War II having served with the 454th Bomb Squadron and 323rd Bomb Group. He was decorated with the Purple Heart, Distinguished Flying Cross with one oak leaf cluster and Air Medal with 10 oak leaf clusters.
     
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  7. Luc Vervoort

    Luc Vervoort New Member

    Mutley and RSwank,

    Many thanks for the supplied information.

    Perhaps we can find the full names of the other crewmembers….

    Best regards from Belgium

    Luc
     
  8. Mutley

    Mutley Member

    When you say full names, I take it you would like me to post the FULL, First Name, Middle Name and Surname!? I can probably also include the ASN, Home town, training places, etc., for at least some of them, but choose not to, due to privacy and intrusion matters!!

    If you would like further information, please contact me, possibly via the Martin B-26 Marauder Historical Society (MHS for short), to which I am a director, and we can happily discuss more about what any further and fuller information can or may be used for!! Regrettably there is some people out there who simply 'Fish' for information, to then only use, or miss-use!, that information for more personal or nefarious reasons!!

    The MHS has suffered from people in the past who have used our charity for the furtherance of their own profit making ventures. At least one of those "group's" was forced to stop charging for "Their" research, which was actually information gathered and supplied by active MHS directors, which was not supposed to be for 'Private' profit!! The MHS is a charity and research organization, not an institution for freeloaders to make their own profit from!

    Sorry to anybody that may feel slightly offended by my comments, but research, particularly factual and reference able research are both expensive, in time and effort, and costly in financial ways. Research, like Freedom, isn't Free! It costs somebody, somehow!!
     

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