C-47A # 41-18603

Discussion in '64th TCG' started by Airwar, Jun 20, 2017.

  1. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

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  2. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Jaap, If you don't mind me asking, what is the relevance of the two CBI newspaper articles for T/Sgt Tracy and M/Sgt Robarge as neither seem related to this loss of 41-18603?

    For the rest of us this (postwar limited content) MACR 15386 starts here https://www.fold3.com/image/29430031 on fold3 for those with access. The limited personnel page Jaap attached earlier and the Casualty Report from findagrave seems to list and identify "everyone" 23 personnel casualties in total, one survivor, the pilot 1st Lt. James D. Fitzgerald, ASN: O-704913. (a full load for a C-47) all identified as US military personnel except Maj William Robert Williams (UK, Royal Army) https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=56564766 and Alice Prescini (ARC, PBS) - this acronym designation is unclear to me but might be American Red Cross as there were also army nurses aboard this plane https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=177804124

    What leads you to believe there might have been Italian partisans aboard?
    MACR_15386_Page_13557_for 41-18603_2Feb1945.jpg
    MACR 15386 for C-47, 41-18603; 2 Feb 1945.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017
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  3. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

    Thanks Scott,wrong articles. The reason is the passenger list , Alice Prescini and an British officer.
    An Italian friend of Livorno came with that quistion. The British officer was probably of the SOE
    of the British Secret Service. I will search further,thanks.

    Jaap
     
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  4. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    According to his findagrave page the British officer Maj William Robert Williams was assigned to the Royal Army Service Corps (RASC); in the US Army this would be an (S-4) "Supply" function. Alice Prescini was with the American Red Cross, the "PBS" might be an acronym for Plasma Blood Service; but no confirming source has been found. On ancestry.com the only info for Alice Prescini is the findagrave page, understandable given we only know her name and date of death, and apparently her body remains MIA.

    I guess it is possible that both Maj Williams and Alice Prescini were "under cover" he with the SOE and her with the OSS, or as you are researching an Italian partisan agent. Searching OSS for her here https://www.archives.gov/research/military/ww2/oss yields no results; rather difficult to confirm. Look forward to your future findings.
     
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  5. pathfinder504

    pathfinder504 Active Member

    The British officer, WILLIAMS, William Robert (MBE), was in the RASC--Royal Army Service Corps. Buried in Florence War Cemetery (British)

    The citation for Capt Donald B Kresch as to unit is wrong. Kresch is buried in a mass grave (indicating co-mingling of remains from the crash) at Jefferson Barracks, MO.
    The unit citation for 4th Sq, IX Pathfinder Gp apparently refers to DWIGHT E KROESCH. He was a good friend of mine. "Junior" was the pilot of Normandy PF plane 5. He most assuredly did not die during the war ---he passed in 2005.

    Donald B Kresch was 80TCS/436TCG

    IX TCC PF Group (Prov) was officially disbanded 14APR45. 1Sq, 2Sq and 3Sq were sent one each to the three TC Wings then in the ETO and assigned to Wing HQ. The 4th Sq was completely demobilized and personnel either rotated to ZI or placed in one of the three remaining Squadrons. By August 45 Dwight E Kroesch was already a Major...and no longer with IXTCCPFG in any capacity. The notation in the MACR is just plain strange!
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017
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  6. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    Regarding Alice, I wonder if there has possibly been a spelling error somewhere. On this link, with names of people in aircraft accidents in 1945, whose last name starts with "P":

    http://www.accident-report.com/crews/1945/NAME45P.html

    there is a "Pescini, Alice".

    In the "computer" lists of WWII dead on Ancestry.com there is this:
    Alice_E_Pescini.png
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017
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  7. pathfinder504

    pathfinder504 Active Member

    The surname PRESCINI as given in the MACR does not come up in any census search...so must be a typo. My thought was that she might be an ITALIAN civilian volunteer with ARC as it indicates she is buried in a cemetery in Italy.

    What else is in view record?
     
  8. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Odd from ancestry:
    Name: Alice E Pescini
    Gender: "Male"
    Religion: No Record
    Cemetery Name: Italy
    Disposition: According to next of kin
    Service Branch: Civilian
    Alice E Pescini, WW II Dead.jpg
     
  9. pathfinder504

    pathfinder504 Active Member

    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017
  10. pathfinder504

    pathfinder504 Active Member

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  11. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

  12. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    From Dave's post #9 - Cemetery Code List; opens as an MS-Word doc www.7tharmddiv.org/docrep/X-Cemetery-Codes.doc for future reference (new to me).

    Does the Follonica Cemetery, Follonica, Italy still exist? (having difficulty finding its GPS location) or have these veteran remains been moved elsewhere?
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
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  13. pathfinder504

    pathfinder504 Active Member

    I could find a civilian cemetery but it only hinted at the shape of a temporary American cemetery. I was hoping to find that distinctive "tear-drop" road feature but, no.
    Since she was technically a civilian and was buried in a US Cem, I would expect that there has to be an IDPF on her in US archives. Even if it is to reflect her transfer to another authority. I still can't figure out why I can't find herein the census. Found a girl similar who was a nurse in an institution in PA but no family data.
     
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  14. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Thank you, Dave.
    Yes this was the problem I was experiencing finding this US Military Cemetery (as pictured on fold3). The Follonica (civilian) Cemetery appears to be located at 42°55'52.21"N, 10°45'49.88"E or 42.931169, 10.763856 (images below). However this appears to be an above ground crypt cemetery as might be found in New Orleans (maybe a water table thing?). At any rate the US military cemetery Follonica seems to no longer exist. Likely some moved to Florence or as indicated earlier for this C-47, 41-18603 incident a common grave in the US.

    For me Alice is still missing in "Wonderland", unknown with certainty if she was an Italian or United States citizen. The name change as understandable as it is in this thread is still disturbing to the evidence trail of this persons actual identity. Yes results from an IDPF "might" be helpful if they exist, however as a civilian US or Italian there is no guaranty a 293 file exists for "Alice" "What's-Her-Name", and as importantly under what last name would such a request be filed? Under Prescini as earlier documented or Pescini as presently speculated; or both to cover all the "known" bases (there might be more). Then there is that year long wait currently to receive a copy of the IDPF regardless of what it contains, again if it exists at all.

    This is Jaap's project, so the request for 293 files should have already happened, maybe now with a new request in the name of Pescini. I am skeptical of results either way but that is my nature having tilted with windmills in the past hunting Manhattan Project records thru FOIA requests. Being from the Netherlands Jaap might be better suited for tilting with windmills but has my support in what ever might be required if easier done (Gemakkelijk gedaan) from the United States.

    Scott

    Follonica cemetery aerials
    Overview; Follonica Cemetery 42.931169, 10.763856.jpg
    Close-up; Follonica Cemetery 42.931169, 10.763856.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
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  15. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

    Thanks for now Scott and Dave. Iam digging,Spitting but no Pescini,Prescini or Pascini contains with my research.
    The British Major I found and he was ( probably) a medical officer ( must having confirmation ).
    Still searching,thanks Guys,

    Jaap
     
  16. pathfinder504

    pathfinder504 Active Member

    If Williams was a medical officer his branch of service would be RAMC.
     
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  17. pathfinder504

    pathfinder504 Active Member

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  18. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    Scott, the woman who wrote the interesting AWON article (see pathfind504 post above) has her email address (Search for Sims) in the next issue.
    http://www.west-point.org/family/awon/star/issue84.PDF

    She may be able to give the cemetery coordinates or at least point out where it was on a map if you want to follow-up.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
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  19. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Thank you, Rolland.
    I will leave it up to Jaap if he believes the exact location of this cemetery is important to his study. Presently and with Jaap's input post #15 it remains unclear if this person once interred there is even the correct person being studied.
     
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  20. terveurn

    terveurn Active Member

    Why not just order the accident report from Maxwell and findout exactly who was on the ship.
     
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