Big Time Operator

Discussion in '446th BG - Bungay' started by Steve Tyson, May 28, 2017.

  1. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    Scott, something not right in your plotting of: 54.066793,11.831153

    It should be 400 m or so East of Brusow. Brusow is just a little East of Kroepelin.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2017
    25Kingman49 likes this.
  2. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Rolland, that was odd, plotting map corrected post #2o
     
  3. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Perhaps a redundant recap for the Simon's crew, 25 August 1944, mission to Rostock aboard Liberator 42-51086.

    KIA and POW's KIA-Murdered. Findagrave memorials updated with images and content; click on the image for caption content.
    1st Lt John W Simon, O-805995 (P) (New York) [Still MIA, crashed with plane] https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=56303896
    2nd Lt John B Dzanaj, O-817642 (CP) (Pennsylvania) POW/KIA-Murdered https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=49176837
    2nd Lt Colin F Barkell, O-708388 (N) (Missouri) POW/KIA-Murdered https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=56652458
    SSgt Garnett E Saint, Jr., 38453184 (TG) (Texas) POW/KIA-Murdered; Findagrave (w/photos) https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=56660368

    POW's/RTD/EUS
    2nd Lt John E Drilling,O-706820 (B) (Kansas) POW/RTD/EUS; original enlistment https://aad.archives.gov/aad/record...&tf=F&q=16104187&bc=sl&rpp=10&pg=1&rid=193127 POW https://aad.archives.gov/aad/record-detail.jsp?dt=466&mtch=1&cat=WR26&tf=F&q=O&706820&bc=sl&rpp=10&pg=1&rid=60645
    T/Sgt John F Whitmore, 16056402 (ETTG) (Wisconsin) POW/RTD/EUS; enlistment https://aad.archives.gov/aad/record...&tf=F&q=16056402&bc=sl&rpp=10&pg=1&rid=178288 POW https://aad.archives.gov/aad/record...&bc=sl&rpp=10&pg=1&rid=23722&rlst=23722,26387
    T/Sgt Elmer C Colt, 37663256 (RO) (Iowa) POW/RTD/EUS; enlistment https://aad.archives.gov/aad/record...tf=F&q=37663256&bc=sl&rpp=10&pg=1&rid=6832488 POW https://aad.archives.gov/aad/displa...&mtch=1&q=37663256&cat=WR26&dt=466&tf=F&bc=sl
    S/Sgt Joe T Corley, 38140379 (BTG) (Texas) POW/RTD/EUS; enlistment https://aad.archives.gov/aad/record...6&tf=F&q=37663256&bc=sl&rpp=10&pg=1&rid=54399 POW https://aad.archives.gov/aad/record...6&tf=F&q=37663256&bc=sl&rpp=10&pg=1&rid=54399
    S/Sgt Norman J Wintermeyer, 15126068 (WG) (Ohio) POW/RTD/EUS; enlistment https://aad.archives.gov/aad/record...tf=F&q=15126068&bc=sl&rpp=10&pg=1&rid=1088894 POW https://aad.archives.gov/aad/record...6&tf=F&q=15126068&bc=sl&rpp=10&pg=1&rid=25208
    S/Sgt Charles F Tyson, 35543993 (WG) (North Carolina) POW/RTD/EUS; enlistment record https://aad.archives.gov/aad/record...tf=F&q=35543993&bc=sl&rpp=10&pg=1&rid=5810225 POW https://aad.archives.gov/aad/record...&tf=F&q=35543993&bc=sl&rpp=10&pg=1&rid=122894

    Many thanks to Rolland Swank for his invaluable research of this incident.
     
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  4. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    I found these images of the Rostock, Germany Heinkel Flugzeugwerke-(aircraft) Factory which might be of interest. One was actually reported as being taken the day of this 42-51086 loss.
    Source https://www.fold3.com/image/48691060
    Rostock, Germany Heinkel Flugzeugwerke Factory 4 Aug 1944
    Rostock, Germany-Heinkel Flugzeugwerke 4 Aug 1944.jpg
    Rostock, Germany-Heinkel Flugzeugwerke 4 Aug 1944 (caption).jpg
    Rostock, Germany Heinkel Flugzeugwerke Factory 25 Aug 1944, with obvious heavy bomb cratering.
    Rostock, Germany-Heinkel Flugzeugwerke 25 Aug 1944.jpg
    Rostock, Germany-Heinkel Flugzeugwerke 25 Aug 1944 (caption).jpg
    The Heinkel Flugzeugwerke-(aircraft) Factory was located in the Schmarl area about 3 miles north of Rostock on the banks of the Warnow River. This contemporary view is inverted (looking south) to simulate the view in the first image. Very few if any original 1944 buildings seem to remain, and all signs of the airfield have been erased. The factory placement below is ruffly based on the first image Warnow River shape and turns.
    Schmarl; Heinkel factory area.jpg
     
  5. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    Scott, the only building left from the original factory area is used today as an indoor soccer/sports field. Here is a view with north at the top and the factory area outlined in black. The large white building near the lower side of westward "bulge" is it. The large outdoor sports field with running track shown in wartime photo, shows up in the image below as a large brown oval spot just above the westward bulge of the factory. It is just outside the factory area.

    03.0  Factory Area.png
     
  6. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Rolland, most interesting. What source did you use to determine the boundary lines of the Heinkel Factory? I was hoping to find one of those nice labeled target photos on fold3 but no soup. Also what is the source of the image above (Google Maps?). It is fascinating to study these aerial views taken during the war compare to what remains today. Frankly as war would have it, little was left standing in these target zones as evidenced in the earlier moonscape images of this Rostock Heinkel Factory area.

    Here is my earlier GEarth Heinkel Factory image taken in 2016 (did not move my factory marker, so it seems I hit within the factory area, and everything north of the factory boundary would have been airfield) reoriented with north at the top and scaled in a bit for comparison with your image. Second image was taken in 2006, the oval red/brown soccer/football field is present, this starts to go green and overgrown about 2013 becoming a park or green space by 2016. And the third image is yours again for close comparison of all three together.

    Heinkel Factory Area 2016.jpg
    Heinkel Factory Area 2006.jpg
    03.0  Factory Area.png
     
  7. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

  8. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Thank you, Rolland. Once again I didn't dig deep enough or in the right place on fold3, should have just searched Rostock https://www.fold3.com/search/#query=Rostock&t=495. Makes for quite the sequence of bomb damage assessment.
    [1] Rostock, Germany-Heinkel Flugzeugwerke 4 Aug 1944.jpg
    [2] Aircraft assembly plant at Rostock, Germany 25 Aug 44.jpg
    [3] Rostock, Germany-Heinkel Flugzeugwerke 25 Aug 1944.jpg
    The last photo is inverted to match the others which are looking south. In this last photo the factory would be left of the rail line which is to the left of the sports stadium. Interesting how that structure changed over time, here it appears to have a berm running around the perimeter.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2017
  9. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    From German Factory Documents:

    This was the 12th Attack of the War.
    There were 8000 workers on site, located in 4 underground bomb shelters and 5 above ground tower shelters.
    2 workers were killed, 2 were seriously injured and 21 slightly injured. 1 flak crewmember was killed.

    The factory was 30% destroyed in this attack bringing the total destruction (counting previous attacks) t0 50%.
    The Germans estimated that they were hit by 600 HE bombs (500 lb GP), 8000 incendiary bombs (AN-M17 A1, some still bundled) and several hundred liquid fire bombs (AN-M76).

    They would create a bomb fall plot very similar to US plots except it was done on factory plan drawings, not a photograph.
     
  10. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Interest but brief Bomb Damage Assessment (BDA) of the Heinkel Factory Rostock, The Nazis did love their records, so it is assumed your source is accurate, the 600 HE bombs seems a low estimate just counting creators in the one "small area" BDA photo (last post 28). It is amazing what remains after repeated area carpet bombing, particularly personnel if sheltered properly and in advance of an attack. Was hoping to find Rostock content in the US Strategic Bombing Survey but only 2 minor notes found here in charts http://www.angelfire.com/super/ussbs/airrep.html (at least from this source)

    This is all probably running a bit off topic for this thread, other than to discuss this target, which had a long history of being attacked starting with the RAF in 1942. Sir Arthur Harris Air Marshall/CO, RAF Bomber Command (Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Arthur_Harris,_1st_Baronet) also had a new philosophy in the use primarily of incendiary weapons to burn the cities of the Third Reich to the ground, Rostock one of the first. No defense of the Nazis intended here but Harris' plan was the indiscriminate targeting of German population centers, with little attention toward hitting legitimate "military" targets. All of this may have contributed over time to the "take no prisoners" incidents by some Rostock residents. Off topic associated tactics, XXI BC, under commanded by LeMay used night incendiary attacks on Japanese urban areas to great advantage shortening the Pacific war, maybe a page borrowed, from Sir Harris' play book.
    Harris' Rostock content:
    https://books.google.com/books?id=U...bing Survey, Heinkel Rostock, Germany&f=false

    http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a421966.pdf

    Found this 8AF page (too late) which contains most of the Rostock images already posted to this thread http://www.8thafhs.com/maps.php?lat...ustry+Aviation&map_type=target&target_id=5209
     

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