Discussion in 'Heavy & Very Heavy Bombers' started by Cate58, Oct 8, 2016.
See updates to post #9
Thank you for that. here is a picture of Dr Morrell who was awarded an OBE for his efforts
All that is left of a memorial today. sorrry it won't let me upload the photo
Cate, by the way welcome to this forum.
I am as usual confused/conflicted to the goal and objective here, perhaps placing a marker for this incident but where exactly? Maybe you can help here with a definite map coordinate of where this ditching took place. Appears to be somewhere between Littlestone and Greatstone. From the MACR all we have to go on that I see is the crew was evacuated to the near by Jolly Fisherman's Hotel at Little Stone. Perhaps after 70 year this is all just known as Greatstone. Where was the old memorial in relationship to the ditching site and what is your hope for a future memorial as it it seems the old has been abandoned? These are simply arbitrary questions wondering about the future and location both of the planned memorial and actual ditching site which I hope is exactly known by you that you can share here.
Here is the other slightly odd twist to this mission where the intended target was Nazi "V" weapon sites in France. Per the MACR the target for today was Fleury France however the range from there to London (normal target) would be 290 miles. The range of the V-1 was 160 miles, and the range of the V-2 was 200 miles, so the true target in or near Fleury France remains unknown as far as I can find. There was a consorted effort to stop the V-2 weapons system while in transport where rail centers would be the target. In this instance Verdun would appear to be the closest rail marshaling yard to Fleury but that was not the named target. All not pertinent to your query but I like to try and understand the full story behind the mission where in this case it seems cloudy.
article where Meng is mentioned
thanks for the welcome. The original was in the car park behind the sand dunes, this was taken away by the local council in 2014 as they said it didn't have plannig permission. Locals are still putting wreaths and memorial crosses to the 4 guys killed on the wire fence in the car park. Two guys were killed over France the other two on the beach when they jumped out. I am trying to get plannning permsiion for a memorial stone near to where the wreaths are being placed as I guess this is roughly in line with where the plane came to rest. The plane, I believe, is still under the sand.
The area was origianlly known as New Romney but a landowner wanted to develop it into a holiday park so the areas of Greatstone and Littlestone were named. The Jolly Fisherman is in Greatstone, near to a flat I'm trying to rent.
Don't think the V1s were all targeted at London as there were some airfields in Kent. Hawkinge is about 15miles up the coast, West Malling 30miles in land, Biggin Hill 40miles in land ect.
I've tried to post a photo of the current car park fence but get an error message saying it's too big
Thanks to you all for all your help, it was great to read the pilot's report
Scott,post 9, Guy Tweed of Steubenville,your correct
Scott, the launch site was Fleury in the Pas de Calais.
Fleury co-ordinates: 50.422727, 2.252237
Launch Site per ncap: 50.427280, 2.252124
Cate, you need to resize (not just crop) your photo, which takes some software. Several of us can do that for you if you don't know how.
I will PM (Conversation) you my email address if you want to send the photo to me.
Interesting tribute! I have updated the page on BBW with more info:
Thank you, Cate for your help to understand where this place is on the Kent channel coast. Wishing you success with a permanent marker, and I do hope you can load a photo of this site as well. You are also correct that London was not the only target of the V-1, or the V-2 for that matter. A little off topic except to explain why this 491BG crew found them selves in this ditching situation. Even Wiki does a pretty good job of explaining this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-1_flying_bomb_facilities and I found this other interesting site https://sites.google.com/site/terryolmsted/Home/chapter-48-p40-warhawk/chapter-48-13-2 one of their maps attached. The V-1 was like a rifle with regard to guidance, where the launch rails pointed in the direction of the intended target. The V-2 was an entirely different and more dangerous story.
Thank you, Rolland for the correct Pas de Calais coordinates (what was I thinking...), this puts London only 126 miles away (if London was the intended target from this site). Here is another interesting tangent for users of Google Earth (I'm a fan). Recently I discover there are now street view available across France, Belgium, Netherlands and UK. This was once only available in the United States. Anyway, for this thread if you wish you can visit the streets of Fleury in the Pas de Calais, or the Coast Drive running along the Kent coast. There appears to only be one main car park (parking lot) on the coast side of the road, areal / street view images attached; is this the correct car park?
By the way, the image of 42-95191 first linked back in post 7 and again full image by Daniel in post 30, I had not originally noticed that this is this ship flying back with its nose blown off; I'm probably the only one that missed this.
Yes it is the correct car park. The wreaths and crosses are to the left in front of the trees, blocked by the exit sign. Rolland re-sized it for me as below
I was down there this afternoon, lovely rainbow over the bay and took a picture of the Jolly Fisherman pub. I'll try and post it. Fail!
Cate, I'm sure Rolland would be happy to help again with this photo. Attached is another street view with a close look at the fence line where these crosses and writhes are being displayed. Is there a community organization of some type that you are a part of working with the city counsel regarding a permanent maker? This comes back to what type of marker is desired by "all" and then placement would be important to. On the north end of the car part is a sand trail leading up over the dune to the beach. Anywhere in this area would seem perfect for viability, and the memorial could be anything from and information sign or more extravagant perhaps a small bolder with bronze descriptive plaque. What are the funding prospects for this memorial; private, public or combination?
I've tried to get a committee together as the War memorial Trust suggest this but although local people think it's a good idea, no takers. I was thinking of a double grave stone type memorial. I have contacted the local council to see if they would give planning permission and if there would be any restrictions on the type of memorial. The attached is for a B17 which crashed about 5 miles awayhttp://www.kentonline.co.uk/ashford/news/hamstreet-marks-us-aviators-life-saving-15724/
I 've written to the American War Memorials committee but think it's going to be contributions from local people or organisations like the Masons, Royal British legion don't do memorials although they do remembrance. Also will try the American Aviation Museum at Duxford
Your link to the memorial for Lt William Johnson is quite familiar to me. Lt Johnson was with the 447th Bomb Group which was my father's Group. While looking for funding to create a monument at Greatstone have you considered the "War Memorials Trust" or the "Heritage Lottery Fund"? I know nothing about these two organizations but have seen them mentioned on several sites about war memorials in the UK.
Do you know anything about the "Kent Fallen" organization? Don't know if they are still active but could not find anything about Greatstone on their web site.
http://www.kentfallen.com/kent fallen homepage.html
Oops, I see you mentioned the War Memorial Trust in your last post.
This is what is behind the trees and up the sandy path
Looking out to see roughley in line with the crosses on the wire, could be where the plane landed? tide goes out half a mile in this bay
Looking back towards the dunes don't know why there is a fenced area
Rainbow over the bay
The Jolly Fisherman Pub
No problem, they give advice but not funding for new memorials. Haven't tried the Heritage Lottery Fund yet as checking with council a memorial will be allowed. thanks
Sorry guys seem to have posted some photos twice hope they don't take up the bandwith or something
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