B24 Stardust

Discussion in '466th BG - Attlebridge' started by Robert, Mar 16, 2017.

  1. Robert

    Robert New Member

    Hello, looking for information about my namesake and Grandfather 1st Lt Robert J Mogford. He was the pilot of B24 41-29364 which crashed after takeoff on 3 March 44 resulting in all ten crew members killed. A B24 piloted by Prosper Pinto had problems on takeoff and turned to return to the field and crashed into my grandfathers plane in dense fog. I had a account on this site previously but I lost all info when I changed my email address. I had been talking to someone in the Netherlands who was writing a book but I can't remember his name. Any info would be appreciated. Thank You Robert Mogford III
     
  2. Lucky Partners

    Lucky Partners Well-Known Member

    Robert,

    An Accident Report is available for this incident. Have you explored that route? The information I see says the accident took place on March 27th , not March 3rd.


    41-29364.jpg
     
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  3. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    Do you have the MACR? It is very short, 7 pages long and only two of the pages have useful info. We can get it for you if you don't have it. There is info on your prior post about the crash here:

    http://forum.armyairforces.com/threads/466th-bomb-group-assoc-is-still-active.98/

    Here is something you may not have seen before. A little on Hall Grey Carney, who was the bombardier on Mogford's plane.

    Of interest to you might be the fact that this was Carney's second mission. That might suggest it was Mogford's second mission, but more likely he had flown one or two missions as co-pilot or even as pilot with an experienced crew. Most bomb groups would try to orient new pilots that way. (The MACR has Carney as a F/O, not a 1st Lt as is in this link).

    http://suttonhistoricalsociety.blogspot.com/2011/11/biography-of-hall-gray-carney.html


    Mogford is buried in England and on this link it shows he had a purple heart but no air medal.
    Air Medals were typically awarded after 5 missions.

    https://www.abmc.gov/node/541635#.WMsa59LyvMo
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
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  4. Lucky Partners

    Lucky Partners Well-Known Member

    Interesting that there would be a MACR in addition to the Accident Report but the MACR doesn't add anything useful beyond the names of the crewmen. Another look at AAIR shows the other aircraft to be 42-52562 piloted by Prosper Pinto, rank unknown. There is an Accident Report for this aircraft also but not a MACR.

    Some links you might find useful:
    http://www.466thbga.com/

    This link shows that March 27th was only the Groups 4th mission. Ties in with Rolland's comment regarding the Air Medal not being awarded. Scroll down and click on March 27 to access the mission report and other details.
    http://www.8thafhs.com/get_one_acgroup.php?acgroup_id=53

    Facebook page here:
    https://www.facebook.com/466historian/


    Page from MACR:


    STARDUST.jpg
     
  5. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    As Hal found this was the group's fourth mission, they were all "green" and it is doubtful they did any pilot "break-in" as I had speculated in my prior post. Most likely it was also Mogford's 2nd mission and he only flew those two with his crew. This 2nd mission was flown in Stardust as they were apparently assigned that plane as a "last minute" substitute crew.

    The accident report might have more information.

    Perhaps the only reason they did a MACR was because they got an inquiry about Delhagen.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
  6. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
  7. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

    articles
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Robert

    Robert New Member

    I'm sorry that was a typo. I did mean 27 March 44. That is more than I have had. To answer some of your questions I have his Purple Heart, and he is buried at the American Cemetary at Cambridge. My father went there once to see the grave. He never knew him, he was only two months old when he died. I see that the Attlebridge Diaries is back in print and I will order a copy. Thank you all and if anyone has anything else I thank them in advance.
     
  9. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    AAIR (AviationArchaeology.com ) also has an accident report for Pinto's plane.

    http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/src/dbasn.asp?SN=42-52562&Submit4=Go

    I suspect the two accident reports "might" give you an idea of what happened. Take-offs were highly choreographed affairs. Planes took off 30 seconds apart and flew a prescribed "race-track" course. So many seconds on each heading, a 90 degree turn and then repeat. Climbing all the while at prescribed rate. A low powered radio beacon near the airfield would have helped keep everyone on course.

    It could be done through overcast with the planes never seeing each other until they breakout above the overcast. At that point they could visually form-up. If everyone followed the script, the planes should have always been separated by distance and height. Even if two planes were over the same spot on the ground, they should have been at different altitudes.

    If the crash happened after they were in formation, then perhaps one of the planes got into the prop-wash of a leading plane and got tossed about a little. It could happen in seconds. One thing the Hollywood movies rarely show is the concentration required of the pilots to fly in tight formation. It was even harder to do in B-24s as they were not quite as "stable" as B-17s.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017

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