B17 42-40014 lost 3-3-1944

Discussion in '92nd BG - Podington' started by trixie123, Jan 3, 2016.

  1. trixie123

    trixie123 New Member

    seeking info this action and photo of plane and crew , info pertaining to SSgt John Goshy Tail gunner, MACR 2857
    Thanks
     
  2. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    Trixie, I assume you have the MACR. It is very short and basically says that no one saw the plane leave the formation (of the 92nd BG). It has the next of kin list and thats about it.
    The plane was last seen by the group in the vicinity of Hamburg.

    There is a little more info in Osborne's Fort Log.

    42-40014 (No plane name listed) on 92nd BG site:
    http://92ndma.org/92nd/92ndB-17AircraftRoster.pdf

    Delivered: Long Beach 2/11/43; Kearney 13/11/43; assigned to 325BS/92BG plane coded [NV-D] Podington 6/1/44;

    MIA Wilhelmshafen 3/3/44
    Pilot: Walter C Lansford, Jr
    Co-Pilot: Robert S McMurry,
    Navigator: Robert A Nugent,
    Bombardier: Frank E Pearson,
    Engineer / Top Turret Gunner: John E Lindauer,
    Radio Operator: George F Tungkvist{body washed up Busum, Germany. 21/5/44},
    Ball Turret Gunner: Wayne E Beck,
    Waist Gunner: Wendell Phillips,
    Waist Gunner: Kenneth W Bush,
    Tail Gunner: John Goshy (10KIA);
    flak, crashed North Sea, MACR 2857.

    Note that all the men except Tungkvist are still on the MIA lists (although for some reason Phillips is listed as US Army not AAF. )
    Names can be found off this link: http://www.dpaa.mil/OurMissing/WorldWarII/ServicePersonnelNotRecoveredFollowingWWII.aspx
    Tungkvist's grave is here:
    http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=56356799
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
  3. trixie123

    trixie123 New Member

    Thank you ! found a bit more on goshy he was wounded on july 25 1943 with 379th BG 524th BS on B17 #42-29866
    the pilot was KIA Willis C Carlisle found some images online but not complete crew ! Must be a picture of Goshy someplace
    original member of B17 F #42-29866 Juby B
     
  4. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

    Target Berlin,but this was recalled and the group attacked Wilhelmhaven,Germany. This B-17 was last seen near Hamburg and probably crashed in the North Sea
    off Northen Germany. The body of T/Sgt. Tungkvist washed ashore near Busum on the North coast of Northen Germany.
    Later reinterred in Ardennes Cemetery Plot P-11-271, before final identification in 1950 and being reinterred in Plot C-12-25.
    The other 9 crewmembers are commemorated at the WOM Cambridge.

    Jaap
     
  5. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    Fold3_Page_1.jpg There is this photo of a 379th BG crew in front of Judy B. Photo was taken July 16th, 1943. None of the men seem to be identified.

    https://fold3.com/image/32192799
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
  6. trixie123

    trixie123 New Member

    thanks !!! I did see it just have to figure what one is goshy if he is in the picture ???? this was about a week before pilot was killed and he was wounded !!
     
  7. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    Do you have a photo of Goshy? I have recently been using a on-line face matching program to try and identify men in crew photos.

    I see Goshy was born in 1918 and had 2 years of high school, so a HS yearbook photo may not exist. In the older classbooks they often only had photos of the seniors.

    I notice there may be a newspaper photo of the pilot, Willis C Carlisle who was killed here:
    https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/18942857/

    I don't have subscription to the site to get a decent copy, maybe some other members can get a copy and we could compare it to the men in the fold3 photo and see if it is "possibly" the Carlisle crew.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
  8. trixie123

    trixie123 New Member

    No photo ! good idea ! I can get on ancestry but not newspapers.com will search pilot Good idea !!
     
  9. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    "Judy B" was named for Carlisle's baby daughter.
    Based on this link which includes (I think) a photo description of the photo we have but NOT the actual photo (so this is still guess work):

    https://books.google.com/books?id=LGaaZU2JguwC&pg=PA17&lpg=PA17&dq="Willis+C+Carlisle"|"CArlisle,+willis+c"&source=bl&ots=dgad5C4P-V&sig=BAYuliQBiNhtB-QkbFYtw17c8oM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi49qiR05DKAhUK6mMKHa14BkcQ6AEINjAG#v=onepage&q="Willis C Carlisle"|"CArlisle, willis c"&f=false


    I think the men in the photo are (back row): Charles R Bigler (co-pilot), Carlisle (pilot). Glaser (bombardier), Bradley (navigator).
    Front row: Kukawski (BTG), Johnson, Tyler, Stachura (Tail Gunner) . Missing according to the caption are waist gunners Dyson and Matthew.

    If this is all correct, then Goshy may have been a substitute gunner for the July 25th flight. In fact, he may have been from the "Gunner Pool" and not have had a regular crew assignment. That may also be true when he was in the 92nd BG.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
  10. trixie123

    trixie123 New Member

    I found info he was in Kearney Neb as an original gunner crew # 7 on 42-29866.
    maybe he was wounded on prior mission than the one Carlisle was killed on?
    Original crew from Neb. from 379th BG anthology
    Pilot W C Carlisle , Bigler Co pilot ,john Bradley , Joseph Glaser jr ,Albert tyler , Sgt Arnold A , B B Johnson
    C J Kukawski ,John Goshy J.A Stachura
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
  11. trixie123

    trixie123 New Member

  12. trixie123

    trixie123 New Member

    found this pic on 379th BG site stating crew 7
    Unknown does any of face seem to match Carlisle or Bigler ???
     
  13. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    None seem close, but you can play with this yourself. The program is: twinsornot.net

    The picture for crew #7 (higher resolution) is also on fold3.com here: https://fold3.com/image/48252233
    But note: Fold3.com says the picture was taken Oct 20, 1943.

    The program works best with the highest resolution photos you can get. While the progam will work with multiple men in a photo (you will need to pick one for the comparison) you can also just enlarge a photo on your screen and then take and save a screenshot of just the faces you want to try and match.


    Note that 42-29866 is Judy B. So maybe he was originally on the Carlisle crew and had been injured or removed from flight status earlier. Certainly the names you found were most of the Carlisle crew.

    Bigler apparently took over the crew and continued to fly the Judy B until lost on 16 August 43. The crew at that time.
    Bigler Charles R. 2nd Lt, Pilot, Returned
    Deehr Vern P. 2nd Lt, Co-Pilot, POW
    Bradley John W. 2nd Lt, Navigator, POW
    Boyle John T. 2nd Lt, Bombardier, Returned
    Johnson Benjamin B. T/SGT, Radio Operator/Gunner, POW
    Tyler Albert P. T/SGT, Top Turret Gunner, Returned
    Kukawski Charles J. S/SGT, Ball Turret Gunner, POW
    Dyson James A. S/SGT, Right Waist Gunner, Returned
    Stachura John A. S/SGT, Left Waist Gunner, KIA
    Matthew Paul V. S/SGT, Tail Gunner, POW

    Bigler, Boyle, Tyler and Dyson evaded capture. Their evasion reports should be available on-line.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
  14. trixie123

    trixie123 New Member

    Was it normal to be sent to a different Group after being wounded ? I would have thought back to same crew ?
     
  15. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    That might depend on why he was taken off flight status. It could have been due to a wound or injury, medical or psychological reasons. Returning to duty with a different group and crew may have given him a fresh start. His original pilot was killed 25 July, 1943 and his "original" crew went down on 16 August 43. (see my post above). Even the 4 men who returned would have been sent back to the states. They would not have flown with the group again.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
  16. Lucky Partners

    Lucky Partners Well-Known Member

    Yes, all four E&E reports are on line.

    Bigler: https://research.archives.gov/id/5555198
    Boyle: https://research.archives.gov/id/5554779
    Tyler: https://research.archives.gov/id/5554780
    Dyson: https://research.archives.gov/id/5555211

    There is a slight time delay before the report appears.

    Reason they would not fly again is that if they were shot down again and captured by the Germans there was a grave risk that they might reveal the people who helped them to escape the first time and the methods and the routes they used in their escape. The Germans had the means of identifying the names of the crew members who were shot down, if those names cropped up again later they would receive extra special attention during interrogation.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
  17. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

  18. Lucky Partners

    Lucky Partners Well-Known Member

    Jaap,
    Yes, the MIS-X reports are listed by name and number at this part of the Conscript heroes web site: http://www.conscript-heroes.com/escapelines/index.htm
    However this list does not include either the reports themselves or any instructions on how to obtain the reports.
    Several years ago all the names were put into a database and sorted in alphabetic order with the direct link to each report at the NARA. To obtain the report it was just a matter of clicking on to the link next to the name. It appears that the web address at the NARA has been changed and after 20 minutes searching through the NARA I have not been able to find the present location of the E&E files.

    EDIT: Ah, success, or at least some level of success. Here is the hiding place:
    https://research.archives.gov/id/305270

    And here are the reports, in report number order, not alphabetic. For the men in question use the three digit number in the links I posted above.
    https://research.archives.gov/search?q=*:*&rows=20&offset=0&tabType=all&facet=true&facet.fields=oldScope,level,materialsType,fileFormat,locationIds,dateRangeFacet&highlight=true&f.parentNaId=305270&f.level=fileUnit&sort=naIdSort asc

    BUT, just discovered that there is a tiny "sort" button in the upper right part of the page about an inch from the top. Allows you to sort by name, much easier to find who you are looking for.

    Have re-done my earlier post with the correct links.

    Looks like I am going to have to rework my entire spreadsheet of almost 3000 names!
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
    Airwar likes this.
  19. trixie123

    trixie123 New Member

    Thanks for all the help !!! Think I am going to focus back on original Plane and crew
    Mission to Berlin 3/3/1944 aborted went to targets of opportunity hitting Wilhelmshafen
    pilot Walter c Lansford
    I believe SSgt Goshy was tail gunner
    any info or pics of plane and crew
    92nd BG
     
  20. trixie123

    trixie123 New Member

    4 out of 10 crewmen ided in this German photo as being Lansford crew taken pow but never seen again from 92nd bg post on Facebook hope it's ok to share ? Must be complete crew
    From documentary be hind the wire !
    Even ones father thought it was them in 1944!!
    What happened to this crew ?
     

    Attached Files:

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