Aircraft Info

Discussion in 'All Hands Club & Canteen Discussion Area' started by cody1947, Mar 30, 2017.

  1. cody1947

    cody1947 Member

    Had this sent to me asking if it was a 379th BG ship. I cannot find any references to it in the inventory. Anyone have a nose art registry or any ideas?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Lucky Partners

    Lucky Partners Well-Known Member

    Cody, ???? Nothing attached.
     
  3. cody1947

    cody1947 Member

    Sorry, Thought I had already uploaded.
     
  4. Lucky Partners

    Lucky Partners Well-Known Member

    OK, that's better. Wallace Forman shows 2 by this name, one in the 94th BG and one in the 487th BG. No serial number for either one. Checked the 379th BG Anthology, nothing in their list for this name.
     
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  5. Lucky Partners

    Lucky Partners Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017
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  6. cody1947

    cody1947 Member

    I had already found the 487th BG site and was about to look for her in the 94th. I too could not find her so I messaged them to see if they could check their sources(I included the photo this time).

    Thanks for your assistance
     
  7. Lucky Partners

    Lucky Partners Well-Known Member

    OK, see what tomorrow brings. Always happy to help.
     
  8. cody1947

    cody1947 Member

    Thought I'd let you know I heard from the 94th BG moderator and their Caledonia was an "F" model.
     
  9. cody1947

    cody1947 Member

    Well I stand corrected. It is the 487th BG Bird. Caledonia #42-98011 - 487th BG - 838th Squadron. In the photo you first gave a link to yo will notice the nose Art is in a different area but the mission bombs are the exact match in placement. There are other clues that these photos are of the same bird.
     
  10. Lucky Partners

    Lucky Partners Well-Known Member

    Not to be contrary, but I don't think these are the same plane. Notice the 487th ship still displays the factory applied project markings P38 and 35 whereas our mystery ship does not. Also placement of the mission marks is not unique, have seen many photos with this same basic arrangement. And the mystery ship appears to have two rows of markers above the windows, looks like a heck of a lot of missions. The change in the spelling of the name may or may not be significant but nothing here really suggests to me that this is the same a/c. Interesting nose art though, looks like a bear wearing a cowboy hat and smoking a cigarette.




    Caledonia.jpg

    Cal-Donia.jpg
     
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  11. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

  12. Alex Smart

    Alex Smart Active Member

    Hello,
    My two pence worth,
    The two pictures in post 10 above to me show two different aircraft.
    Apart from the stile of the markings, take a look at the paneling above the nose turret and below the blister gun port, the sizes and shape of the panels are different.

    Alex

    PS: "B17 Nose Art Name Directory" has the following -
    CALDONEA - 487BG.
    CALEDONIA - 94BG.
    SO yes spellings are also adrift.
    CAL'DONIA
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
  13. Alex Smart

    Alex Smart Active Member

    Hello,
    "Heavy Bombers of the Mighty Eighth"
    Page 334, 490 BG/850 BS 41-28882 Cal'Donia
    02 02 44 AI 12 05 44 AOS 00 00 44 G, 00 00 44 489BG.
    Page 210, 489BG,
    02 07 45 Albuquerque, New Mexico.
    Alex
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
  14. Lucky Partners

    Lucky Partners Well-Known Member

    Alex,

    Something wrong with that s/n, 41-28882 would have been a B-24. Can you scan and post that page?
     
  15. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

  16. Lucky Partners

    Lucky Partners Well-Known Member

    Thanks Scott, pretty much confirms 41-28882 as a B-24. Guess you can't trust everything they put in books! No offense intended Alex.
     
  17. Alex Smart

    Alex Smart Active Member

    Hello,
    Well spotted chaps. Book is correct - a B24.
    My error, I thought I was looking at list of B17's but the start was B24's then followed by the B17'starting on page 336 for this Group.
    It is the only reference referencein the book to an a/c with that name Cal'Donia.
    However on page 404 there is B24 Silver Wolf of 490BG listed but with No serial number. On page 336 it gives the squadron as 848th. So which squadron was she with first , 850th or 848th before being transfered to the 489th BG ??
    Alex
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
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  18. Alex Smart

    Alex Smart Active Member

    As the Group used both a/c types would a crew have flown both type of a/c or just stick to one type within the Group ?
    I ask this because two types in the same Group had the same "personal" nick name ?
    Alex
     
  19. Lucky Partners

    Lucky Partners Well-Known Member

    Alex,

    Good question. The 490th began transitioning from B-24s to B-17s in August 1944. Somewhere I heard or read that a pilot was expected to be able to fly anything with wings but as a practical matter there were enough aerodynamic differences between the two types that I would expect the pilots would require a some amount of transitional training. I can't imagine that it would have been fly a B-24 today then fly a B-17 tomorrow. Someone like Jim Peters or Bill Runnels would be the ones who could answer that one.
     
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  20. terveurn

    terveurn Active Member

    The four 3rd AD groups spend about 3-weeks going from the B-24 to the B-17 -- the 486th and 487th were the first two. Last B-24 mission in the first week of July 1944, first B-17 combat mission on 1 August 1944

    490th was the third groups to transition -- last B-24 mission early August 1944, first B-17 mission September -- it was followed by the 34th BG.

    Many of the B-24 pilots finished their tours in B-17's -- the B-17 was a much easier aircraft to fly then the B-24.

    (as a tanker pilot, tried them both and the B-17 was simpler and less demanding)
     
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