492nd Bomb Group crashes in France

Discussion in '492nd BG - North Pickenham' started by Airwar, Nov 9, 2016.

  1. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

  2. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

  3. barthé35

    barthé35 New Member

    Bonjour les amis
    Me revoilà pour vous demander des informations sur un B - 24 LIBERATOR tombé dans la nuit du 12 au 13 octobre 1944 à Chavagne, Ille et Vilaine. Le point de chute se trouve à 45 kilomètres de chez moi. Je vous donne Ce que nous avons sur ce B-24 H-20-FO c'est appareil faisait partie 492e nd BG / 406 th NLS immatriculer 42-94845 , codé J6-? et baptisé "Miz-Pah" et nous avons deux noms pilote.
    (pilote) 1 er lieutenant Edward J. Shannon (RTD)..
    ( Bdr) 2e. Lt. Clinton A. Wiley.(Blessé).

    Pourriez-vous me donner un complément de donner sur le codage de l'appareil (la lettre individuelle) et si vous pouvez le complément de pilotes. Bien sûr avec les photos si possible, individuel ou en groupe. Merci

    Je peux vous dire que nous avons répertorié plus de 227 crashs d'avions de l'USAAF dans notre région de la Bretagne. Nous avons encore beaucoup de travail pour rendre un honneur à ces pilotes.

    Je vous remercie pour vos recherches et surtout pour eux les pilotes qui ont laissé leur vie pour notre liberté





    A toute
     
  4. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    On this link see page 357 or search for 42-94845 :

    http://biblioteka.mycity-military.com/biblioteka/padobranac75/Bombardovanja II sv. rat/Razni PDF PPS/Aircraft lost on Allied Forces Special Duty Operations.pdf


    "While on night leaflet mission 875 from Cheddington aircraft suffered engine fire, crew bailed out. After being abandoned in flight the aircraft crashed in flames at L’Egrace near Chavagne (Ille-et-Vilaine) 10km SW of Rennes, France"

    It also says Lt Edward J. Shannon Jr USAAF was the Pilot and that Lt Wiley the Bombardier was injured.

    The plane was apparently originally a 34th BG plane before being transferred to the 406th NLS.
    The 34th BG website has its history with the group:

    http://valortovictory.tripod.com/b24s/42-94845.htm

    The crew is a little more of a mystery. There was a 492nd BG "Shannon" crew that transferred to the 406th NLS.

    http://www.492ndbombgroup.com/cgi-bin/pagepilot.cgi?page=showCrewPage&crewPage=R-32-Shannon&crewTitle=Shannon R-32

    Note the bombardier was Clinton A Wiley and the pilot was Horatio A Shannon.

    The 802492.org website lists a James P Shannon crew, but not a Horatio A Shannon. Wiley is not mentioned either. The site also does not list the plane: 42-94845.

    Joe Baugher's website lists the plane as in the 34th BG, 406th BS. (Note: the 34th BG actually had the 4th, 7th, 18th and 391st bomb squadrons but not the 406th).

    There does not appear to be a MACR nor an accident report for the loss. Since most of France was liberated by 1 Oct, 1944:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/1944-10-01GerWW2BattlefrontAtlas.jpg

    I would assume all of the crew came down in liberated territory.

    Horatio Alfred Shannon died in 2001.
    https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=58376552
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2017
    peterDuck and 25Kingman49 like this.
  5. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    RSwank likes this.
  6. peterDuck

    peterDuck Member

    I know that 'Miz-Pah' could not have been with the original 492nd BG on the date in question. The 492nd BG had be deactivated in early Aug 44 and split-up among other bomb groups. The 801st BG "Carpetbaggers" was redesigned as the 492nd shortly afterward. I've checked the 801st/492nd BG website and they don't have 42-94845 listed. Also, while they do have a Shannon listed, his name is James P Shannon.

    Joe Baugher's website, www.joebaugher.com, does list B-24H-20-FO 'Miz-PAh' 42-94845 (http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/1942_5.html). He has them assigned to the 34th BG. He also has them assigned to the 406th BS. In addition, he does list that 'Mix-Pah' was "....lost night of Oct 12/13, 1944..."

    I'm a bit confused by the reference to the 34BG. To my knowledge the 406th was never assigned to the 34th BG. The 406th BS was, however, assigned to the 801st/492nd BG.

    I didn't have much luck singling out Edward J. Shannon. I did manage to single out Clinton A. Wiley. Here are three references to him:

    http://wwii-enlistment.com/record/19101989/
    https://aad.archives.gov/aad/record...&tf=F&q=19101989&bc=sd&rpp=10&pg=1&rid=297194
    https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/...=all&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=57418569&df=all&

    What's interesting about these references is the WWII Enlistment website has his birth year as 1921. I believe 1916 is correct. It appears that he died shortly after the incident your researching. Unknown whether it was due to wounds received in the incident or some other incident.

    Lastly, I did find Shannon in a personnel list PDF on the 801st/492nd site. I've printed the page for you. I would recommend going to this link and downloading the entire PDF. http://www.801492.org/PPP/PPP.pdf There may be some additional information you might find useful (such as additional crew members).

    In conclusion, I think your on the right track. Unfortunately, there's not a lot of information easily accessible (that I'm aware of). Also, be sure to "double check" your data. There are many errors, both in published material and official documents, that need to be corroborated.

    Best of luck with your research.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
  7. peterDuck

    peterDuck Member

    RSwank,

    Very nice "finds"... Not sure how I missed that 'Miz-Pah' was an original aircraft to the 34th BG. Bad search on my part.

    I especially like the biblioteka.mycity-military.com source. Definitely clarifies which Shannon was the pilot.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
  8. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    The Air Force Chronology for October 12 lists:

    "Mission 675: 8 aircraft are dispatched to drop leaflets in the Netherlands,
    France and Germany during the night; 2 B-24s are lost."

    If we look at the Battlefront Atlas for Oct 15, 1944 we see that Saint-Nazaire (and a few other French ports) were still in Germany hands.
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/1944-10-15GerWW2BattlefrontAtlas.jpg

    Given the distance the crash site (10 km SW of Rennes) is from Saint-Nazaire, (maybe 90 km or so) I suspect it is possible the leaflet target for Shannon that night might have been Saint-Nazaire. Saint-Nazaire was not liberated until May, 1945.
     
  9. barthé35

    barthé35 New Member

    Bonjour les amis

    Merci pour vos recherches. Nous avons trouvé le n ° de l'opération qui est l' opération n ° 875 du 406th NLS, dans la nuit du 12 au 13 octobre 1944. Route: Base: Anvil Point, Cap d'Antifer, cible et retour. Cibles: Prüm (land de Rhénanie-Palatinat. Elle est située dans l'Eifel). Wittlich (Rhénanie-Palatinat). Et Bitburg-Prüm, (Rhénanie-Palatinat). Décollage à 00h50.

    Avec cela pourriez-vous me trouver si cela est possible, le nombre d'appareils engager dans c'est opération, et si possible les équipages. Merci
    Nous recherchons tout ceci pour faire une commémoration sur le lieu du crash en l'honneur de ces pilotes. Nous aimerions faire aussi figurer leurs noms sur la stèle.
    Voilà le pourquoi je vous demande beaucoup de chose et j'espère qu'on puisse trouver leurs noms
    A plus les amis et merci pour vos Recherches

     
  10. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    You can download all the NLS missions on this link.

    http://www.801492.org/Air Crew/406thNLS All Missions.pdf

    Unfortunately, it may not answer all our questions. Lt Shannon shows up for the mission of Oct 11/12 1944 (see pdf page 72) flying "845" to Prum, Wittlich and Bittburg.
    It appears his time off was 00:50 (on the 12th) and he has a return time of 7:38 (on the 12th).
    I would assume that the time would mean he landed at the time. There does not seem to be any notation that the plane was lost.


    On Oct 12/13 3 B-17s and 5 B-24s are sent. They take off between 20:45 and 20:55 (on the 12th). They return between 23:55 (on the 12th) and 04:07 (on the 13th).
    There are 8 take offs and 8 return times and Shannon is not listed as flying one of the planes. So...... a further mystery.

    Lt Shannon is listed as flying again (plane 4775) on Oct 30/31.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
  11. peterDuck

    peterDuck Member

    I would recommend checking the AFHRA for CD's related to the 'Carpetbaggers'. A website to search the index is located here http://airforcehistoryindex.org. Some sample searches would be '0492/BOMBARDMENT' 'carpetbagger' and '0801/BOMBardment'. Make sure to narrow your search to a specific date range.

    It can be a "hit or miss" endeavor. I have some carpetbagger documents that were in a file related to 'Trucking Missions'. Go figure ;-) Unfortunately, they were April 45 documents so no use for your research.

    Best of luck
     
  12. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    I think you want to search for "Leaflet" not "Carpetbagger". A search on the airforcehistoryindex.org for "Leaflet" and date range 10/01/1944 to 10/30/1944 turn up this:

    http://airforcehistoryindex.org/data/000/046/412.xml

    There are also some specific missions in October listed when you do the search. Not clear if they are specific 406th missions or not.
    The problem you may have is that crews may not be listed, only the pilots. Thus it may be hard to get a crew list for the mission the night the plane was lost. Note also the missions were flown by single planes going to different targets. You only need to get Shannon's crew for the mission in which the plane was lost. The crew that was transferred with Shannon from the 492nd may not have all stayed together. Even if they did, they may not have all flown together on every mission. The ordering address is now:

    AFHRA.NEWS@US.AF.MIL

    Instructions on how to order are here, but do not use the address they give. It is no longer valid.
    http://airforcehistoryindex.org/obtain.html
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
    25Kingman49 and peterDuck like this.
  13. peterDuck

    peterDuck Member

    Attached Files:

Share This Page