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417th NFS'Beau maybe recovered ?

Discussion in '417th BG' started by Cépé, Feb 6, 2017.

  1. Cépé

    Cépé New Member

    Dear all

    Still searching for WWII lost'souls it appeared that a fisher man found in his net in the area of Porto-Vechio, south-estearn Corsica, light relics of an WWII airplane. Our intrest on the question, gave us the fact that these remains belonged at on Beaufighter (famous british twin engines), and mainly had a USAAF'crew aboard.

    We know that two "Beau" of the 417th Night Fighter Squadron were lost during WWII close to the coast of Corsica.

    May be some one have knowledge and more ionformation about these loss.

    Pics enclosed from the relics recovered : an engine cowling, and an exhaust gas pipe with hedgehog "herisson in french" for night fly without to be repered by exhaust flammes of the engines.

    Philippe and Stephan
     

    Attached Files:

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  2. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

  3. Cépé

    Cépé New Member

    Thank you Jap

    I did it.

    Philippe
     
  4. RSwank

    RSwank Well-Known Member

    Two crashes I can find are these. Both seem to have gone down near Monte Cristo, which is not close to the area of the recovery, so possibly not these losses.

    KW 161, MACR 5053, engines were Hercules A-382428 and A-388244

    1ST LT Joseph .E. LEONARD (P) F/O Raymond CHRISTENSEN (RO), May 13, 1944, SHOT DOWN ENEMY AND CRASHED IN BEAU OFF ISLAND OF MONTE CRISTO.

    https://www.abmc.gov/node/548512#.WJiQ-CErJ1Y
    https://www.abmc.gov/node/529429#.WJiQQCErJ1Y



    ND 262 , MACR 7068, engines were Hercules 481649/SS/14699 and 381739/SS/1475(9?)
    2ND LT Robert Ward INGLIS (P) F/O Theodore Edward HEARNE (RO), JULY 20- 21,1944, SHOT DOWN "BED CHECK CHARLIE" AND THEN BOTH CRASHED, COAST OF CORSICA.

    https://www.abmc.gov/node/548261#.WJiS-yErJ1Y
    https://www.abmc.gov/node/529832#.WJiTKSErJ1Y


    You may need to check the Accident Reports to see if there are some ditching accidents in the area.

    I found a reported ditching of ND 167 on 7 July 44 with pilot Guy Wilson. The location is given as Bastia/Ligurian Sea which again seems to be the wrong area.

    There may be other reports of such losses.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2017
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  5. Cépé

    Cépé New Member

    Hello Swank

    Sorry for the delay to answer, I missed your important message, tha,k for the reponse.

    I will be in Corsica at the end of October and will meet my friend who taken the pictures of these olds remains.

    More later about (I hope)

    Philippe
     
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  6. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

  7. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

  8. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

  9. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

  10. Alex Smart

    Alex Smart Active Member

    Hello,
    I agree with The MACR's 5053(05/13/1944) Christensen and Leonard and 7068(07/20/1944) Inglis and Hearne.

    However I am open minded with the serial number in the report of Inglis and Hearne.

    ND262 is given in the report but this a/c was SOC on the 02/29//1944 according to AB RAF serial book NA100-NZ999.
    While
    ND282 is recorded as being transfered to the USAAF, so this may well be the a/c of Inglis and Hearne.
    There were several a/c in the Middle East that were seen to have had the serial number painted with incorrect letters or numbers, this was perhaps done at repair depots or during on squadron maintenance by a squadie. It may well also be that the number was seen as a six but was indeed a worn eight ?
    Indeed in part to support my doubt the serial number given in the AAIR list for "ND262" is ND672.
    Also the MACR for BT287 is given in the report as "Dt287".

    In any case details and map refs in both reports should highlight which it may be if it is indeed a US Beaufighter.

    Alex
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
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  11. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    As Rolland pointed out initially both of these aircraft are not likely candidates for the Beaufighter hedgehog pipes discovered off the Corsica coast near Porto-Vecchio. As noted both of these aircraft crashed near Monte Cristo Island, 70 miles / 113 km northeast of Porto-Vecchio.

    For those with fold3 access.
    Kw-161, 7 page MACR 5053 https://www.fold3.com/image/28624552

    ND 262 9 page MACR 7068 https://www.fold3.com/image/28701487

    Maps from both MACRs attached.

    Corsica overview, Porto-Vecchio recovered Beaufighter "hedgehog" pipe area to Kw-161 & ND-262 crash areas, other points of interest.
    Corsica overview,  Beaufighter hedgehog pipes.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
    Airwar likes this.
  12. 25Kingman49

    25Kingman49 Well-Known Member

    This document http://417th-nightfighters.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Chapters-1-3.pdf offers more 417NFS data; search for [ loss ] and/or [ fatalities ]; fatalities chart on PDF page 25. These combat crew fatalities have already been covered by Rolland's study in post #4.

    If the Porto-Vecchio recovered Beaufighter "hedgehog" pipe was from a 417NFS ship it was likely an accident without loss of life. It seems odd though that even an aircraft accident loss without fatalities would not be covered in this document.

    Why is the 417NFS suspect here? The 414, 415, and 416NFSs were also operating Beaufighter aircraft with stations on Corsica. It appears the 415NFS was at one point operating from Solenzara Air Field much closer to the the Porto-Vecchio "hedgehog" pipe recovery area.
     
  13. Alex Smart

    Alex Smart Active Member

    Hello,
    For what its worth I have Beaufighter JM399, RAF shot down by flak off Corsica on July 14th, 1943. F/Lt. Cartwright, John N. - 114227 - RAF
    And
    Sgt(Nav). Colley, William C. - 1497454 - RAF.
    Both remembered on the Malta Memorial.

    Also two Wellington's.
    November 1st, 1943.
    Wellington X - JA192 - 104 Sqdn - MIA Viareggio, Crew rest at Bastia War Cemetery.
    And
    November 24/25th, 1943.
    Wellington X - HZ513 - 37 Sqdn - Abandoned over the sea some 8-12 Miles North of Bastia, two of the crew safe.
    Also
    April 24/25th, 1944.
    Lancaster I - 630 Sqdn - ME717, one killed, F/Sgt. Dunbar, Maxwell - 424162 - RAAF - not radial motor's.
    May 12th, 1945
    Vengeance IV - 12 Ferry Unit - FD277 - F/Sgt. Branston, Basil E - 1337901 - RAF - aircraft abandoned near Ajaccio.
    November 5th, 1945
    Lancaster I - 300(Polish) Sqdn - PD383 "BZ-H" - all 24 were presumed Killed, a/c MIA in storm on transport flight off Corsica. Again Not radial motors.
    Alex
     
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  14. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

    Alex Iam sorry if I dont understand your post # 13, but what are you looking for ?

    Jaap
     
  15. Alex Smart

    Alex Smart Active Member

    Hello Jaap,
    Not looking for anything, just providing some Corsican crashes that may or may not be relevant as some were also radial motor a/c and may well have had "hedgehog" flame dampers fitted.
    Alex
     
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  16. Alex Smart

    Alex Smart Active Member

    Hello,
    The only others that it could be is:
    ND167, Wilson, Guy N. down in the Ligurian Sea(?),July 7th.
    Or
    MM839, Lee, John S. November 7th. But Gulf of Lyon(?), Mediterranean.
    Alex
     
  17. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

  18. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

  19. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

    Guy N. Wilson
     

    Attached Files:

  20. Airwar

    Airwar Well-Known Member

    John S.M.Lee
     

    Attached Files:

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