Aviation secrets

Re:Aviation secrets (Alesandro45)

Sun, 17 Jun 2012 17:59:48 GMT

Any records of them trying to reproduce it? Did they even thought of it as significant?

Re:Aviation secrets (RSwank)

Sat, 16 Jun 2012 19:55:11 GMT

Yes they did and probably a long, long time before the date when the US Government released this photo in Nov, 1944 with the caption:

"Here it Is-the Norden Bombsight. Orlando, Fla.: The cover of secrecy is lifted, at long last, from the Norden bombsight-America's unparalleled aerial weapon. Now that the bombsight has been captured intact by Germany, it is possible to reveal this closely-guarded instrument. It will take years for the Nazis to reproduce the valuable instrument. The first photo of the Norden bombsight was made at the Orlando USAAF Tactical Center.

http://www.corbisimages.com/stock-photo/rights-managed/U743870ACME/man-showing-norden-bombsight

Re:Aviation secrets (Alesandro45)

Sat, 16 Jun 2012 18:28:49 GMT

On related note, did Germans ever managed to get their hands on a working Norden Bombsight?

Re:Aviation secrets (mike)

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 19:15:08 GMT

It seems to me that the "thermite Granade" would be a methode of last resort. When one lites one of those things up it don't stop until it runs out of fuel and in a B-17 it would just burn its way right out the bottom of the plane. Here is a picture of Norden Bombsight and a utube demo of one of those nasty things ... The granade, yes it is nasty ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiRJj2oRWnM

Re:Aviation secrets (RSwank)

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:50:34 GMT

I have also read that at some point there was a metal box with a thermite grenade inside it, and the bombardier was to remove the bomb sight and put it in the box and then pull a ring which would set off the grenade. I think at different times during the war, or in different groups the method of destruction varied.

Re:Aviation secrets (billrunnels)

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:24:37 GMT

The Bombsight did have a "Thermite Grenade" mounted for destruction at one time but when I was there in 1945 it had been removed and we were instructed to fire a couple rounds from our 45 into the sighthead to destroy the vertical gyro system.

captn71

From what I understand, the Norden Bombsight also had a self-destruct mechanism built into it--a thermal device to completely destroy it.

Re:Aviation secrets (dnalor)

Mon, 11 Jun 2012 07:12:48 GMT

Hello dear Contributors,
thanks for this great information, precise, reliable, exciting.
All I knew about was by "hear say", now I have truth not rumor.
Glad to say, that Bill Runnels is in my mailing list, will contact him as well.
On German side I knew about the secret construction of the "Command apparatus" for raising the Me 106 engine power. It was highly protected against espionage during its assambling.
Nowadays a little computer in every modern car is stearing the car engine on the former technical idea.
Greetings
dnalor

Re:Aviation secrets (captn71)

Sun, 10 Jun 2012 13:04:23 GMT

From what I understand, the Norden Bombsight also had a self-destruct mechanism built into it--a thermal device to completely destroy it.

Re:Aviation secrets (jpeters140)

Sun, 10 Jun 2012 11:50:25 GMT

Richard...I am not sure of the exact location of this panel...but,there was a similar one on top of the cockpit instrument panel...and if I recall correctly there was one above the radio operator's table in the B-17.

I don't know the function of both of them..but, I recall seeing both of them.,

A radio operator could better explain the location and function of them....I was the flight engneer,and I had my hands full with the aircraft structure,engines,and systems other than the navigator,bombardier,and radio equipment,

Bill Runnels was a bombardier, and I think that there are others who were radio operators.

My scanty knowledge was picked up through listening and observing.

Jim :-)

Re:Aviation secrets (SHAEF1944)

Sun, 10 Jun 2012 11:34:04 GMT

Jim, this look familiar ?
" Special Radio " destruction was the IFF set , so the enemy couldn't use them to pass as allied aircraft.

Re:Aviation secrets (jpeters140)

Sun, 10 Jun 2012 09:53:47 GMT

I recall a small panel located approximately center on the top of the cockpit instrument panel with two RED buttons, to set off explosives,in the event of crash landing in hostile territory.

An item other than the Norden Bombsight, was the IFF radio..("I"dentification.."F"riend or "F"oe), installed at the Radio Operator's station.

When we were routed thru Valley, Wales, (we had a three day layover, on our ferry flight to deliver a new B-17 to Italy,and the 15th AF), a cloth holder with pockets with pyrotechnic thermite bombs and other devices, was installed opposite the aft main entrance entrance door, to be used if we had to either land, or crash land in Spain, on our ferry flight to Italy.

If we survived a crash landing,we were to destroy the sensitive equipment, burn the aircraft, and attempt to escape and make our way to friendly territory,if possible.

If we had to land in Portugal, we were to turn the aircraft and ourselves into the Portuguese Authorities...and the aircraft and crew, would be traded for a C-47,......and the B-17, with our crew, and the crew of the traded C-47, would return to England.

We had a bit of a scare when there was a break in the cloud cover below us, and we saw land...which meant we were over Spain....and we quickly made our way back over to the ocean,and then continued our ferry flight to Marrakech, Morocco, and on to Italy.

Spain was friendly to the Germans during WW II.

I logged 10 hours and 10 minutes on the ferry flight from Valley,Wales,to Marrakech, Morrocco.

Jim :-)

Re:Aviation secrets (RSwank)

Sun, 10 Jun 2012 07:54:07 GMT

In the instructions for ditching (link here):
http://www.303rdbg.com/ditch.html

the navigator was to destroy any secret papers and the bombardier was to destroy the bombsight. Bombardiers had taken an oath to protect the secrets of the bombsight.
Oath is here:
http://www.merkki.com/bombardiers_of_usaaf_in_world_wa.htm
Methods of destruction are discussed here.
http://www.armedforcesmuseum.com/norden-bombsight/

I have also heard that the radio (and probably other electronic equipment, e.g. radar, etc.) could be destroyed with explosives or thermite. The planes carried thermite grenades that could be set if the plane had crash landed or belly landed to destroy the sensitive equipment or to burn the whole plane.

Aviation secrets (dnalor)

Sun, 10 Jun 2012 06:06:49 GMT

Hello All,
one special question i have since long:
Have there been any orders for pilots in case of going down in enemy area how to save and protect military secrets regarding the plane and its technics? Should they destroy plane parts, (when, how?), should they prefer a crash instead of a belly landing or better always bail out.
Thanks for information
dnalor