Another Mystery B-17

Re:Another Mystery B-17 (billrunnels)

Mon, 04 Jun 2012 10:23:58 GMT

Nick,
Thanks for the up date on Bedford. I didn't get there often but when I did I had a good time. At age 87 the decline in "ladies" looking for a good time is not concerning. Ha Ha
Bill

Re:Another Mystery B-17 (buckeyeuk)

Mon, 04 Jun 2012 04:59:58 GMT

Thanks Bill I don't think they were deleted on the production line, rather when in service at Depots or unit level. Many still had them at the end of the war ( and post-war too).
There was an alternative available in England , an organic compound used by the RAF presumably painted on leading edges. Damage to the inflateable rubber boots made them less effective and loose pieces could strike the control surfaces.
I'm sure Bedford is much as you remember it, at least the town centre , apart from the much increased traffic of course; though there are not so many "ladies" looking for a Good Time as in your day !
Regards
Nick

Re:Another Mystery B-17 (billrunnels)

Sun, 03 Jun 2012 12:20:06 GMT

Hi Nick,
I don't think any of our squadron aircraft had de-icer boots when I was there in early 1945. However the new B-17 that we delivered to the UK did so they must have removed them not to long after the aircraft was received. By the way, how are things in Bedford?

Re:Another Mystery B-17 (Leendert)

Sun, 03 Jun 2012 11:58:31 GMT

The correct spelling is Vorden, which is some 7 mi/13 km E of Zutphen.

However, the pretty well detailed 1943 crash register for the Netherlands gives no immediate results for a B-17 in the Zutphen area on or around 28 July 1943. See http://www.studiegroepluchtoorlog.nl/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/SGLO-Verlieslijst-T-1943-versie-03-19-10-2011.pdf

Regards,

Leendert

Re:Another Mystery B-17 (Alex Smart)

Sun, 03 Jun 2012 10:34:50 GMT

Hello,
To help,
From this Forums Databank
S/n        macr   Gp Sqn
42-3282   118    95 334 B-17
42-29779 124 306 423 B-17 -
42-29777 125 306 423 B-17
42-3326   137    96 413 B-17
42-3345   138   96 338 B-17
42-30401 139    96 338 B-17
42-30141 140    96 337 B-17
42-30355 141    96 337 B-17
42-30351 142    96 339 B-17
42-30394 143    96 339 B-17
42-30032 15165 384 546 B-17 - Holland
42-29796 1761 379 527 B-17 - Holland
42-30179 189A 385 550 B-17
42-3316   189B 385 550 B-17
42-30257 189C 385 548 B-17
42-30285 189D 385       B-17
42-29970 192   305 364 B-17
42-30150 214    95 412 B-17
42-30219 215    95 334 B-17
42-5882   216     95 336 B-17
42-30216 3128 388 563 B-17
42-3116   373     92 407 B-17 - Holland
42-5798   657    92 325 B-17
All the best
42-29798 - 92BG - Holland
Alex

Re:Another Mystery B-17 (buckeyeuk)

Sun, 03 Jun 2012 04:52:29 GMT

Bill the light strips on tail and wing leading edges are where the rubber de-icing boots have been removed. It was common practice when they started to deteriorate.
Nick

Re:Another Mystery B-17 (KAKI3152)

Sat, 02 Jun 2012 22:03:41 GMT

I've also seen yellow leading edges on 95th BG B-17s from the May-July 43 time period. Picture is in The Mighty Eight by Freeman. It looks like the second letter in the ID code is "E" or "F".
I'm going through a listing of B-17s that crashed in Holland starting with the July 28,1943 date but it will take some time.

Re:Another Mystery B-17 (billrunnels)

Sat, 02 Jun 2012 16:10:37 GMT

A review of the Ernest R. Mc Dowell publication "Squadron/Signal" the aircraft could very well be from the 390th Bomb Group which arrived at Framlingham in July, 1943. They are the only group with the yellow stripe on the leading edge of the rudder that I saw in the pictures.

Re:Another Mystery B-17 (jpeters140)

Sat, 02 Jun 2012 15:48:23 GMT

There was a German unit that flew captured Allied aircraft to make the German Fighter pilots familiar with the Allied aircraft, and to develop tactics to down them.
They painted out the Allied markings and replaced them with the German Markings.

In addition, there were several reports in the 15th AF about one of our P-38s that was shooting our aircraft down...it was learned that the P-38 had been captured and flown by an Italian pilot who was still on the German side...(his wife was in the Allied section of Rome). He would approach a crippled bomber either B-17 or B-24, with an engine shutdown...and wait while the bomber crew threw all jetttisonable equipment
overboard, and then unfeather his shutdown propellor and shoot the bomber down...it ended when a bomber pilot whose crew was throwing every thing not bolted down, grew suspicious, and told his crew to keep one or two .50 Machine guns and an amount of ammo...the P-38 pilot then unfeathered the engine, and started making passes at the bomber.... (the bomber pilot had heard that the Italian pilot's wife was in the Allied section of Rome, and angered the Italian pilot by telling him his wife was sleeping with some of the Allied soldiers).

The Italian pilot then got angry and careless and was shot down by the bomber crew...later the two pilots became friends when the war was over.

To authenticate this story...here is an excerpt from Dick Drain's5th Wing History of Aircraft Assigned:

301st Bomb Group 15th AF :

42-30307 BONNIE SUE 419 Bomb Sqdn MIA 11 Aug 1943 Shot down by enemy P-38.

Jim :-)

Another Mystery B-17 (KAKI3152)

Sat, 02 Jun 2012 15:12:55 GMT

In Donald Caldwell's new "Day Fighters over Germany" there is a photograph of a downed B-17F with the caption " The B-17shot down on 28 July 1943 by Lt. Heinz Rose (II/JG-11) but not credited to him. It crash landed near Voerden, east of Zutphen,Holland"

The same B-17 is pictured in an old hardback edition of "I flew for the Fuhrer" by Heinz
Knocke who also flew with II/JG-11. Can anyone identify the unit?The serial number is indistinct, but there is a yellow stripe painted on the leading edge of the rudder. Scans are included.