Need Some Help

Re:Need Some Help (tonystro)

Sun, 01 Apr 2012 22:55:21 GMT

I have yet to uncover a photo of the 425th Bombardment Squadron's B-24. serial 42-40849. "Cabin In The Sky" or "Cabin-In-The-Sky" (I have seen it both ways).

I have experienced some confusion because plane 44-40811, assigned to the 492nd Bomb Squadron of the 7th Bomb Group, carried the same name. Although stationed in India, this plane reportedly flew some missions in China with the 308th Bomb Group while on temporary "detached service."

Re:Need Some Help (Virginia Historian)

Sun, 01 Apr 2012 21:07:16 GMT

Alan:

The pictures of King Bee are stunning. And awful. What are the odds that a picture would be taken as the plane blew apart?

As for the second link, I think that this is another "Cabin in the Sky" - wrong date. Was that a popular name?

Re:Need Some Help (Roy Thomas)

Sun, 01 Apr 2012 20:59:05 GMT

Todd and Gabby,
Check these out.

http://www.b26.com/histor...vor_allen/king_bee.htm

http://forum.armyairforce...e-in-1943-m206445.aspx

Re:Need Some Help (Virginia Historian)

Sun, 01 Apr 2012 20:04:43 GMT

Alan:

Gabby and I want to thank you for your help. Is there any type of website where one can look for photographs of these planes? We'd love to find a picture of Cabin in the Sky.

Todd

Re:Need Some Help (Virginia Historian)

Sun, 01 Apr 2012 20:01:48 GMT

Roy - Gabby and I were delighted to get your message. Thanks for your help.

Todd

Re:Need Some Help (Roy Thomas)

Sun, 01 Apr 2012 17:51:54 GMT

Todd and Gabby,

Earl T Miller, 2nd Lt. O-732882      Temporary Burial, Margraten, Aachen, Belgium
Permanent burial: Virginia        I also found an enlistment record for an Earl T Miller who was born in 1915 and enlisted at Richmond, Virginia.

Richard E. Miller, 2nd Lt. O-673609     Temporary Burial, Mausoleum #2, Territory of Hawaii
Permanent Burial: Virginia

The information about the permanent resting place in Virginia was obtained from the Next-of-Kin. If these are the correct brothers it appears that the family had their remains returned to the U.S. Hope this helps in your search.

The 1930 census has the family living in Salem, Virginia. Father Sudney,52, Mother Dove T, 49, Elizabeth T 15, Richard E 14, Earl T 14, and Louise T 12.
Roy

Re:Need Some Help (AlanStarcher)

Sun, 01 Apr 2012 15:29:12 GMT

Virginia Historian It appears the the crew members of the King Bee were originally buried at the Albert Calmet Hospital Cemetery, and later moved to the American War Cemetery Margraten. However, Earl and his brother were subsequently buried in Salem, Virginia in December of 1948. Is there any way we can find out what cemetery Earl was originally buried in? And was it typical for family members to have bodies moved from Europe to the United States after the war? Was it expensive?

In Richard's case, the History states that the bodies of the eight men killed in the crash of his plane, were buried by the Chinese and then recovered and removed to Kunming. The bodies were temporarily interred in concrete vaults near the airfield before burial at the New American Military Cemetery in Kunming. For example, my uncle's remains were moved to the United States in early 1947 and interred at the US Armed Forces Mausoleum at Schoefield Barracks, Territory of Hawaii. My grandfather requested final burial in the National Cemetery of the Pacific in Hawaii, which was done on 1 December 1949.

You could request Richard Miller's Individual Deceased Personnel File (IDPF, or 293 file) from the National Personnel Records Center which would contain the details of the recovery, transport and disposition of his remains.

One of the telegrams in my uncle's file states "ADVISE IF YOU DESIRE PERMANENT OVERSEAS BURIAL OR REMAINS RETURNED TO NATIONAL OR PRIVATE CEMETERY IN UNITED STATES. REMAINS WILL BE RETURNED TO UNITED STATES FOR BURIAL IN ANY NATIONAL CEMETERY OF YOUR CHOICE AT GOVERMENT EXPENSE WHEN REMAINS ARE DELIVERED DIRECT TO CEMETERY. A SUM NOT TO EXCEED $75 IS ALLOWED TOWARDS DEFRAYMENT OF ACTUAL EXPENSES IF PRIVATE CEMETERY SELECTED."

-- Alan

Re:Need Some Help (AlanStarcher)

Sun, 01 Apr 2012 14:36:48 GMT

Virginia Historian

The second brother was named Richard Edward Miller, and he died on August 24, 1943 in China. Richard was a member of the 425 Bomb Sq. He was a navigator/bomb. aboard a B-24. We THINK that he might have also been a member 308 Bomb Group (Heavy), but we are "guessing" based on an article we read. According to records, the 308 Bomb Group had a fateful mission to Hankow, China on August 24, 1943 - a mission that resulted in 6 to the 7 bombers being shot down.

Fourteen B-24s -- seven from the 373rd Squadron based at Yangkai, and seven from the 425th Squadron (two of the four squadrons composing the 308th [Heavy] Bomb Group) at Kunming - took off on the morning of August 24 to bomb the aerodrome at Hankow. The planes of the 373rd were forced to turn back immediately after takeoff as the weather closed in, leaving the 425th aircraft to rendezvous with their fighter escort and proceed to the target.

About two or three minutes after delivering their bomb loads, the squadron was attacked by enemy fighters; during a running battle, four Liberators were shot down. Ship Number 849, "Cabin in the Sky" was hit; with one engine feathered and another knocked out, the wing ablaze, observers stated that they saw three men parachute from the burning aircraft.

The Group History lists "2nd Lt. R.E. Miller" among the 10-man crew as the navigator of Ship No. 849, "Cabin in the Sky" -- B-24D serial 42-40849 piloted by 1st Lt. D.E. Holder, who along with co-pilot 2nd Lt. G.W. Mosall were the only two to escape the burning plane, returning to Kunming more than two weeks later.

Only one plane returned to Kunming after the mission, leading commanders to believe that six aircraft were lost. One plane was forced to land at Hengyeng to attend to injured crewmen, and two landed at Kweilin; tragically one of these was lost the next day as it crashed while returning to Kunming, killing most the crew and destroying the interrogation records of the previous day's mission.

Re:Need Some Help (RSwank)

Sun, 01 Apr 2012 13:53:30 GMT

A little later in these same pages on fold3.com is a statement on the page concerning crew member Anderson that a German Nurse said that the crew were initially buried in the Albert "Calmet" Hospital Cemetery at Lille France. Probably should be the Albert Calmette Hospital.

Re:Need Some Help (shooshoobaby)

Sun, 01 Apr 2012 13:44:41 GMT

Todd - 8/31/43
The Target for the 387th BG was the Airfield at
Lille / Vendeville. This fits with Hal's Post that He
was initially buried at Lille Cemetery.
Familys of Crewmen were given the choice of
leaving them where they were buried Overseas
or having them shipped home for Burial in a
Cemetery of their choice. Familys were not charged
any $$ for bringing them Home.
Mike

Re:Need Some Help (Lucky Partners)

Sun, 01 Apr 2012 12:43:57 GMT

Attached is some information on Earl Miller. As you noted he was Bombardier/Navigator on B-26 41-31653 of the 387th bomb Group, 558th Squadron. They were hit by anti aircraft fire and the ship was blown in half. Only one crewman survived. What I have is very poor quality but it does say where Miller was initially buried ... if you can read it. Looks like Lille cemetery, British section, gives the grave number but I can't read it. Best way to get details would be to order an Individual Deceased Personnel File, see our research section for instructions. It was not unusual for families to have bodies returned to the US after the war. To best of my knowledge all expenses were paid by the US Govt. (at least that was the case for my uncle who died on Bataan.)

Follow this link for research help, see section titled '293 file' http://www.armyairforces.com/ResearchHelp.aspx

Hal

Re:Need Some Help (Hugh)

Sun, 01 Apr 2012 12:33:58 GMT

I presume you've looked for the Missing Air Crew Report (MACR) at www.fold3.com . You've got a great deal of information. Try searching the group/squadron websites - also keep track of their serial numbers. With name, serial number, and unit numbers I suspect you can find even more.
"Miller" is a tough name to hunt.

Re:Need Some Help (Ted51)

Sun, 01 Apr 2012 12:32:09 GMT

Todd and Gabby:
Sorry that I don't have access to the actual Missing AirCrew Reports but you may be able to access them on Fold3 website.

MACR 00471 wuld be the one for Earl T Miller
MACRs 00553, 00554, 00556, and 00557 are the ones that you could potentially find Richard E Miller. The 425th BS lost 4 aircraft that day.
Best wishes with your project. Ted51

Need Some Help (Virginia Historian)

Sun, 01 Apr 2012 11:56:51 GMT

Dear Forum Members:

My daughter and I are doing some historical research on two Air Force flyers who died during WWII. We became involved in this project when we noticed the grave markers of two twin brothers - both navigator/bomb. - who died within one week of each other during WWII. My 11 year old daughter and now turned this into her school project, and we are trying to collect information on the two brothers for her report.

The first brother was named Earl Thomas Miller, and he died on August 31, 1943 over France. Earl Miller was a crew member on a B-26 named the King Bee (558 Bomb Sq), and his plane was blown apart by German flak while on a bombing mission to a German-held air field. We have had the most success on collecting information on Earl, but we are still looking for more information. We are especially curious about how we might confirm where he was buried. It appears the the crew members of the King Bee were originally buried at the Albert Calmet Hospital Cemetery, and later moved to the American War Cemetery Margraten. However, Earl and his brother were subsequently buried in Salem, Virginia in December of 1948. Is there any way we can find out what cemetery Earl was originally buried in? And was it typical for family members to have bodies moved from Europe to the United States after the war? Was it expensive?

The second brother was named Richard Edward Miller, and he died on August 24, 1943 in China. Richard was a member of the 425 Bomb Sq. He was a navigator/bomb. aboard a B-24. We THINK that he might have also been a member 308 Bomb Group (Heavy), but we are "guessing" based on an article we read. According to records, the 308 Bomb Group had a fateful mission to Hankow, China on August 24, 1943 - a mission that resulted in 6 to the 7 bombers being shot down. We don't know the name of Richard's bomber, or what happened to him. ANY information we can get, including pictures of the bomber and the crew and details on Richard's final mission, would be great.

Many thanks - Todd and Gabby :D