Willow Run Gate Guardian - "Old 139"

Re: Willow Run Gate Guardian - "Old 139" (RSwank)

Fri, 19 Apr 2013 15:17:49 GMT

I received an update from an archivist at the Ypsilanti Historical Society. They have searched their files and found nothing else about the plane. They will try and contact the American Legion Post to see if there is a photo or something in the post's records. If they learn anything they will let me know.

Re: Willow Run Gate Guardian - "Old 139" (Kansan)

Sun, 31 Mar 2013 22:00:33 GMT

RSwank
I just noticed that the Ypsilanti Historical Society in their Spring 2013 issue has an article which gives pretty much the whole story of the plane. (No clue as to serial number however). Maybe they will get some comments from readers and perhaps a new photo. I think the only way we can solve this is to see a new picture which clearly shows either the number on the wing or the tail. I have to believe such a photo exits in somebody's photo album.

The story starts on page 11. It mentions that the plane was to be located near the "Edsel Ford American Legion Post".
http://media.aadl.org/documents/pdf/ypsigleanings/2013-Spring.pdf

I also found a reference to the dedication ceremony which took place on 26 May, 1946 the third anniversary of Edsel Ford's Death. One comment in the article mentions that the plane was "war weary". That may be just a reporter's hype. See page 7 on the link for the brief article.
http://digitize.gp.lib.mi.us/digitize/newspapers/gpreview/1945-49/46/1946-05-23.pdf

Update: I sent an email to the editor of the Historical Society Newsletter (giving him a link to this thread) to see if they have any other photos. He has passed the email on to a couple of their archivists. (Fingers Crossed)

Nice! Thanks for sharing. 'War Weary' was a term that applied to just about anything at that point. If it had been grinding around on the training circuit in the USA it was probably every bit as weary as the machines that had been to hell and back across one ocean or another.

Question about the numbering style on the nose. I've seen a lot of 'training' aircraft with much larger numbers painted on their noses - is the style of the numeral indicative of anywhere. Someone mentioned Chanute earlier - just wondering if the number is a lead anywhere. Might not be, but I'm just curious.

Re: Willow Run Gate Guardian - "Old 139" (RSwank)

Thu, 28 Mar 2013 16:18:19 GMT

I just noticed that the Ypsilanti Historical Society in their Spring 2013 issue has an article which gives pretty much the whole story of the plane. (No clue as to serial number however). Maybe they will get some comments from readers and perhaps a new photo. I think the only way we can solve this is to see a new picture which clearly shows either the number on the wing or the tail. I have to believe such a photo exits in somebody's photo album.

The story starts on page 11. It mentions that the plane was to be located near the "Edsel Ford American Legion Post".
http://media.aadl.org/documents/pdf/ypsigleanings/2013-Spring.pdf

I also found a reference to the dedication ceremony which took place on 26 May, 1946 the third anniversary of Edsel Ford's Death. One comment in the article mentions that the plane was "war weary". That may be just a reporter's hype. See page 7 on the link for the brief article.
http://digitize.gp.lib.mi.us/digitize/newspapers/gpreview/1945-49/46/1946-05-23.pdf

Update: I sent an email to the editor of the Historical Society Newsletter (giving him a link to this thread) to see if they have any other photos. He has passed the email on to a couple of their archivists. (Fingers Crossed)

Re: Willow Run Gate Guardian - "Old 139" (Terveurn)

Thu, 28 Mar 2013 14:57:03 GMT

Question for Al - were all the TB-24L's converted to B-29 combat trainers - remote control turrets & CFC systems?

If so, then these aircraft can also be eliminated.

Re: Willow Run Gate Guardian - "Old 139" (Terveurn)

Thu, 28 Mar 2013 14:03:43 GMT

Two more found

~~49880 to RFC Kingman Jan 16, 1946~~ ex 8th AF / 93rd BG / 329th BS (RE * J)
~~49990 to RFC Kingman Jan 12, 1946~~ ex 8th AF / 93rd BG / 329th BS (RE *)

Re: Willow Run Gate Guardian - "Old 139" (Kansan)

Wed, 27 Mar 2013 22:55:50 GMT

Terveurn, - Amazing on all the Combat Vet B-24Ls. If we take a leap of faith and say it's a TB-24L then narrowing it down to 16 potential contenders is pretty amazing. Kudos!

Re: Willow Run Gate Guardian - "Old 139" (Terveurn)

Wed, 27 Mar 2013 19:22:02 GMT

OK quick google on the list above - eliminates another bunch of ex combat aircraft:

49801 to RFC Walnut Ridge Jan 17, 1946
~~49807 condemned salvage obsolete May 12, 1947~~ ex 11th AF / 28th BG / 404th BS (http://www.b24bestweb.com/dolores1.htm)
49808 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 17, 1946
49809 to RFC Walnut Ridge,Ark as TB-24L Oct 9, 1945
~~49810 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 8, 1946~~ ex 15th AF / 450th BG / 722nd BS (http://www.450thbg.com/real/html/aircraft.shtml)
49811 to RFC Walnut Ridge,Ark as TB-24L Oct 11, 1945
~~49814 to RFC Kingman Dec 18, 1945~~ ex 15th AF / 346th BG / 747th BS (http://www.456thbombgroup...ters/456NL_Aug-06.pdf)
49816 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 17, 1946
~~49817 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 16, 1946~~ ex 15th AF / 451st BG / 725th BS (33) (http://www.b24bestweb.com/817.htm)
49818 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 17, 1946
49822 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 16, 1946
~~49826 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 16, 1946~~ ex 15th AF / 449th BG / 719th BS (18) (http://www.b24bestweb.com/826-v2.htm)
~~49829 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 17, 1946~~ ex 15th AF / 454th BG / 737rd BS (http://forum.armyairforce...spx?m=81331&fp=12)
~~49837 to RFC Kingman Dec 1, 1945~~ ex 15th AF / 464th BG / 779th BS (A) (www.zplace2b.com/464th/images/464BG_AC_List_08-15-08.xls)
~~49841 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 14, 1946~~ ex 15th AF / 450th BG / 723rd BS (http://www.450thbg.com/real/html/aircraft.shtml)
~~49844 to RFC Kingman Oct 23, 1945~~ ex 5th AF / 380th BG / 530th BS (844) (http://380th.org/HISTORY/partVI-appendix.htm)
~~49845 to RFC Kingman Oct 24, 1945~~ ex 13th AF / 5th BG / 31st BS (http://www.pacificwrecks....ft/b-24/44-49845.html)
49847 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Oct 11, 1945
~~49850 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 17, 1946~~ ex 8th AF / 466th BG / 784th BS (T9*F / The Chief) (http://deiterman.com/042.htm)
49851 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 2, 1946
49852 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 8, 1946
~~49854 to RFC Kingman Nov 3, 1945~~ ex 5th AF / 43rd BG / 64th BS (Mabel's Labels) (http://www.b24bestweb.com/mabelslabels2.htm)
~~49857 to RFC Kingman Dec 2, 1945~~ ex 15th AF / 464th BG / 779th BS (www.zplace2b.com/464th/images/464BG_AC_List_08-15-08.xls)
49859 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 16, 1946
~~49865 to RFC Kingman Oct 15, 1945~~ ex 5th AF / 22th BG / 19th BS (The Dutchess) (http://www.flickr.com/pho...89796@N00/3231024913/)
49867 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 8, 1946
49869 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 17, 1946
49872 to RFC Kingman Nov 23, 1945
49873 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Oct 9, 1945 ex 3539 BU
49875 to RFC Kingman Oct 20, 1945
~~49876 to RFC Kingman Dec 3, 1945~~ ex 15th AF / 451st BG / 726th BS (1 / Rhoda) (http://www.b24bestweb.com/rhoda.htm)
~~49877 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 17, 1946~~ ex 15th AF / 449th BG / 716th BS (http://www.usmilitariafor...omb-group-from-photo/)
~~49878 to RFC Kingman Nov 23, 1945~~ ex 15th AF / 450th BG / 721st BS (http://www.450thbg.com/real/html/aircraft.shtml)
49879 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 14, 1946
49880 to RFC Kingman Jan 16, 1946
49881 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Oct 11, 1945
49884 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 8, 1946
49885 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Dec 4, 1945
~~49886 to RFC Kingman Dec 13, 1945~~ ex 8th AF /392 BG / 579th BS (GC * M / Cloud Hopper IV) (http://www.b24.net/aircraft/disposit.htm)
~~49887 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 3, 1946~~ ex 15th AF / 461th BG / 764th BS (6 / Bingo) (http://www.461st.org/Airc...64th%20Nose%20Art.htm)
49889 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 14, 1946
~~49890 to RFC Kingman Jan 11, 1946~~ ex 15th AF / 484th BG / 826th BS (56) (http://www.15thaf.org/49t.../TF35/PDF/TF35-39.pdf)
49892 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 3, 1946
49895 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 2, 1946
~~49896 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 10, 1946~~ ex 15th AF / 461th BG / 765th BS (23 Rhode Island Red II) (http://www.461st.org/Airc...65th%20Nose%20Art.htm)
49897 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 17, 1946
~~49899 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 8, 1946~~ ex 15th AF / 485 BG / 831th BS (Flak Shack II)
~~49900 to RFC Kingman Nov 23, 1945~~ ex 15th AF / 450th BG / 778rd BS (X) (http://www.450thbg.com/real/html/aircraft.shtml)
~~49902 to RFC Kingman Dec 21, 1945~~ ex 8th AF / 458th BG / 755th BS (J3 * M) (http://www.458bg.com/aircraft.htm)
49904 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Nov 28, 1945
49907 to RFC Kingman Jan 8, 1946
~~49910 to RFC Kingman Dec 2, 1945~~ ex 8th AF / 458th BG /755th BS (J3 * D) (http://www.458bg.com/aircraft.htm)
49911 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Oct 27, 1945
49912 to RFC Kingman Dec 4, 1945
49915 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 9, 1946
49919 to RFC Kingman Oct 23, 1945
49920 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 16, 1945
49921 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 17, 1946
49923 to RFC Kingman Jan 6, 1946
49924 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 2, 1946
~~49926 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 17, 1946~~ ex 8th AF / 458th BG / 754th BS (Z5 * S) (http://www.458bg.com/aircraft.htm)
~~49929 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 2, 1946~~ ex 15th AF / 461th BS / 766th BS (Virgin III) (http://www.461st.org/crew...20Crews/Bontempo.html)
49932 to RFC Kingman Jan 7, 1946
49935 to RFC Kingman Nov 28, 1945
~~49938 to RFC Kingman Oct 24, 1945~~ ex 15th AF / 484th BG (http://forum.armyairforce...-484th-BG-m58237.aspx)
~~49939 to RFC Kingman Dec 3, 1945~~ ex 15th AF / 485th BG / 827th BS (Roll Me Over) (http://www.15thaf.org/49t.../TF37/PDF/TF37-10.pdf)
49940 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 16, 1946
49941 to RFC Kingman Dec 19, 1945
49942 to RFC Kingman Dec 3, 1945
49943 to RFC Kingman as TB-24L Oct 21, 1945
49944 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 8, 1946
~~49945 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 16, 1946~~ ex 8th AF / 466th BG / 784th BS (T9*E) (http://deiterman.com/039.htm)
49946 to RFC Kingman as TB-24L Oct 20, 1945
49947 to RFC Kingman Jan 16, 1946
49948 to RFC Kingman as TB-24L Oct 20, 1945
49949 to RFC Kingman as TB-24L Oct 23, 1945
49950 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 17, 1946
49952 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Dec 20, 1945
49953 to RFC Kingman as TB-24L Oct 25, 1945
49955 to RFC Kingman Oct 21, 1945
49957 to RFC Kingman as TB-24L Jan 7, 1946
49958 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 14, 1946
49960 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 4, 1946
49961 to RFC Kingman as TB-24L Oct 20, 1945
49963 to RFC Kingman as TB-24L Oct 20, 1945
49964 to RFC Kingman as TB-24L Oct 19, 1945
49965 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 16, 1946
49966 to RFC Kingman as TB-24L Oct 27, 1945
49967 to RFC Kingman as TB-24L Oct 24, 1945
49970 to RFC Kingman as TB-24L Oct 22, 1945
49971 to RFC Kingman Oct 20, 1945
49973 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark as TB-24L Nov 6, 1945
49974 to RFC Kingman Oct 22, 1945
49975 to RFC Kingman as TB-24L Oct 20, 1945
49977 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 4, 1946
49980 to RFC Kingman Nov 11, 1945
49981 to RFC Kingman Dec 15, 1945
49983 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 3, 1946
49984 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 11, 1946
~~49986 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 17, 1946~~ ex 15th AF / 450th BG / (http://www.450thbg.com/re..ircraft/aircraft.shtml)
~~49988 to RFC Kingman Dec 13, 1945~~ ex 15th AF / 459th BG / 758th BS (Mickey Finn) (http://www.b24bestweb.com/mickeyfinn-v2.htm)
49989 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Dec 4, 1945
49990 to RFC Kingman Jan 12, 1946
49991 to RFC Kingman Nov 2, 1945
~~49995 to RFC Kingman Dec 7, 1945~~ ex 8th AF / 448th BG / 712th BS (CT * E / Luck O' the Irish) (http://www.b24bestweb.com/luckotheirish2.htm)
~~49999 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 8, 1946~~ ex 8th AF / 466th BG / 784th BS (T9 * S / Cindy) (http://deiterman.com/047.htm)

Re: Willow Run Gate Guardian - "Old 139" (Kansan)

Wed, 27 Mar 2013 14:14:37 GMT

Terveurn
Aircraft being sent to the salvage yard does not necessary mean that
1) it actually went
2) was not flown out of
Several aircraft including the Swoose, Memphis Belle and Strawberry Bitch went to the salvage yards but were flown out for displays - so no reason why 139 was not one of those aircraft that went in and later came out for display.

Yes! And this is also true in the case of the B-24 I've been researching for a few years, 42-50535 "Joplin Jalopy" which was a combat veteran with the 44BG and which returned to the ZI in May / June 1945 presumably straight into the hands of the RFC. Over a year later in August 1946 it was restored to flight and flown out of Altus RFC (Oklahoma - where Memphis Belle was stored) back to Joplin, Missouri for which town it was named. Sadly it too was scrapped around 1950 following extensive vandalism. So for the FOWR plant example I think it's quite feasible that this is a ship that was flown out of Walnut Ridge or Kingman (but the smelters were pretty hot at Kingman) and back to WR - the removal of armament and the sealing of turrets looks like fairly standard practice. I think the ceremony we're looking at is the formal handover of the airplane to the plant, VFW or whatever organization asked for it. This was the source of several misunderstandings with memorial bombers since the government *always* kept the title to the airplane. Some townships got into a minor paper storm when they sold their bomber to a scrap merchant or some entrepreneur who wanted to fly it again.

As for the "139" on the nose. Like Steve Puhl said a while back, I don't think this is related to the AAF serial number in any way. It's in some way indicative of a Stateside duty and I don't honestly know what. Al Blue suggested this ship was an L model so it might be a TB-24 of some stripe. TB-24L sounds good so maybe we have some real contenders among this group.

Sorry I've been away from this for a while, fellas. Yes, it's worth the effort and thanks for what y'all have been doing - I had a few other things occupying my time.

Re: Willow Run Gate Guardian - "Old 139" (Terveurn)

Wed, 27 Mar 2013 13:40:12 GMT

Aircraft being sent to the salvage yard does not necessary mean that

1) it actually went
2) was not flown out of

Several aircraft including the Swoose, Memphis Belle and Strawberry Bitch went to the salvage yards but were flown out for displays - so no reason why 139 was not one of those aircraft that went in and later came out for display.

Re: Willow Run Gate Guardian - "Old 139" (Lucky Partners)

Wed, 27 Mar 2013 11:43:06 GMT

Excellent piece of work on that list. Unfortunately if the photo caption is correct this a/c still existed in February 1946. Except for 49807 all these a/c had gone to RFC prior to that date.

Re: Willow Run Gate Guardian - "Old 139" (Terveurn)

Wed, 27 Mar 2013 11:33:18 GMT

First have to find out if this is in fact a Ford Build B-24L... The nose turret fairing, anti-glare panel (both full length as well as the notch beneath the cockpit windshield) seem to confirm that this is a Ford built aircraft.

OK then what are the possibilities with the partial s/n 44-98??? / 44-499??.

Excluding RAF / RAAF Liberators, and known combat aircraft as well as salvaged before the end of 1945 you end up with this list of possibles - out of this list, you have 16 TB-24L:

49801 to RFC Walnut Ridge Jan 17, 1946
49807 condemned salvage obsolete May 12, 1947
49808 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 17, 1946
49809 to RFC Walnut Ridge,Ark as TB-24L Oct 9, 1945
49810 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 8, 1946
49811 to RFC Walnut Ridge,Ark as TB-24L Oct 11, 1945
49814 to RFC Kingman Dec 18, 1945
49816 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 17, 1946
49817 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 16, 1946
49818 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 17, 1946
49822 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 16, 1946
49826 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 16, 1946
49829 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 17, 1946
49837 to RFC Kingman Dec 1, 1945
49841 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 14, 1946
49844 to RFC Kingman Oct 23, 1945
49845 to RFC Kingman Oct 24, 1945
49847 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Oct 11, 1945
49850 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 17, 1946
49851 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 2, 1946
49852 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 8, 1946
49854 to RFC Kingman Nov 3, 1945
49857 to RFC Kingman Dec 2, 1945
49859 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 16, 1946
49865 to RFC Kingman Oct 15, 1945
49867 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 8, 1946
49869 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 17, 1946
49872 to RFC Kingman Nov 23, 1945
49873 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Oct 9, 1945
49875 to RFC Kingman Oct 20, 1945
49876 to RFC Kingman Dec 3, 1945
49877 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 17, 1946
49878 to RFC Kingman Nov 23, 1945
49879 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 14, 1946
49880 to RFC Kingman Jan 16, 1946
49881 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Oct 11, 1945
49884 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 8, 1946
49885 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Dec 4, 1945
49886 to RFC Kingman Dec 13, 1945
49887 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 3, 1946
49889 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 14, 1946
49890 to RFC Kingman Jan 11, 1946
49892 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 3, 1946
49895 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 2, 1946
49896 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 10, 1946
49897 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 17, 1946
49899 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 8, 1946
49900 to RFC Kingman Nov 23, 1945
49902 to RFC Kingman Dec 21, 1945
49904 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Nov 28, 1945
49907 to RFC Kingman Jan 8, 1946
49910 to RFC Kingman Dec 2, 1945
49911 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Oct 27, 1945
49912 to RFC Kingman Dec 4, 1945
49915 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 9, 1946
49919 to RFC Kingman Oct 23, 1945
49920 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 16, 1945
49921 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 17, 1946
49923 to RFC Kingman Jan 6, 1946
49924 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 2, 1946
49926 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 17, 1946
49929 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 2, 1946
49932 to RFC Kingman Jan 7, 1946
49935 to RFC Kingman Nov 28, 1945
49938 to RFC Kingman Oct 24, 1945
49939 to RFC Kingman Dec 3, 1945
49940 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 16, 1946
49941 to RFC Kingman Dec 19, 1945
49942 to RFC Kingman Dec 3, 1945
49943 to RFC Kingman as TB-24L Oct 21, 1945
49944 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 8, 1946
49945 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 16, 1946
49946 to RFC Kingman as TB-24L Oct 20, 1945
49947 to RFC Kingman Jan 16, 1946
49948 to RFC Kingman as TB-24L Oct 20, 1945
49949 to RFC Kingman as TB-24L Oct 23, 1945
49950 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 17, 1946
49952 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Dec 20, 1945
49953 to RFC Kingman as TB-24L Oct 25, 1945
49955 to RFC Kingman Oct 21, 1945
49957 to RFC Kingman as TB-24L Jan 7, 1946
49958 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 14, 1946
49960 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 4, 1946
49961 to RFC Kingman as TB-24L Oct 20, 1945
49963 to RFC Kingman as TB-24L Oct 20, 1945
49964 to RFC Kingman as TB-24L Oct 19, 1945
49965 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 16, 1946
49966 to RFC Kingman as TB-24L Oct 27, 1945
49967 to RFC Kingman as TB-24L Oct 24, 1945
49970 to RFC Kingman as TB-24L Oct 22, 1945
49971 to RFC Kingman Oct 20, 1945
49973 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark as TB-24L Nov 6, 1945
49974 to RFC Kingman Oct 22, 1945
49975 to RFC Kingman as TB-24L Oct 20, 1945
49977 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 4, 1946
49980 to RFC Kingman Nov 11, 1945
49981 to RFC Kingman Dec 15, 1945
49983 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 3, 1946
49984 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 11, 1946
49986 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 17, 1946
49988 to RFC Kingman Dec 13, 1945
49989 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Dec 4, 1945
49990 to RFC Kingman Jan 12, 1946
49991 to RFC Kingman Nov 2, 1945
49995 to RFC Kingman Dec 7, 1945
49999 to RFC Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 8, 1946

Re: Willow Run Gate Guardian: B-24 - "139" (Lucky Partners)

Wed, 27 Mar 2013 11:15:08 GMT

Another thought. The photo caption says it was taken in Feb 1946. Appears to be a VIP photo op of some sort, maybe there were other pictures taken at the same time. Caption notes the Edsel Ford American Legion, if the Post still exists maybe somebody there might have further information.

Re: Willow Run Gate Guardian: B-24 - "139" (RSwank)

Wed, 27 Mar 2013 11:10:27 GMT

The only "44" Ford "139" I come up with: ( Information is from Joe Baugher's site.)

44-49139 a Ford B-24L-1-FO, to RAF Mar 1945 as Liberator GR.VIII KL522. SOC Nov 11,1947

44-50139 a Ford B-24L-20-FO to RAF Jul 1945 as Liberator GR.VIII KP129. Crashed at Reykjavik, Iceland when undershot landing May 29, 1945. (I am not sure if Joe has typo on the dates here or not)

44-51139 a Ford B-24M-20-FO, RFC Kingman AZ Dec 14, 1945.

Re: Willow Run Gate Guardian: B-24 - "139" (Lucky Partners)

Wed, 27 Mar 2013 09:35:52 GMT

A perhaps naive question, if we are reasonably sure this is a Ford built L model, and if it is true that 139 is the last three digits of the serial number, what is the potential population of Libs of this model with a serial number ending in 139? A dozen? Twice that? Maybe 20 or so? How difficult (here's the naive part) would it be to draw up a list of the potential serial numbers and try to account for each of them? Even if it got to the point of ordering IARCs, this tread has been going on for years, would it not be worth the effort to the person seeking this information?
Hal

Re: Willow Run Gate Guardian: B-24 - "139" (RSwank)

Wed, 27 Mar 2013 07:58:18 GMT

Just a question on the numbers painted under the wing. Did they use the name numbers that would appear on the tail, i.e., did they drop the leading 4? Here is a picture of a B-24 where the under wing number is the same as the tail number (i.e., without the "leading" 4. (Scroll down past half way to see the photo)
http://donmooreswartales.com/2013/03/08/tom-rebel/

If so, then what we "see" as 4498???? would translate to 44-498???. In theory then, a possible number would be
44-498139, which according to Joe Baugher is not a valid number. Also not valid, according to Baugher's site seems to be any number of the form 44-49x139.

Perhaps the 8 is wrong. Maybe we have something like 44-49139 or perhaps as was mentioned above, the 139 is not part of the serial number so we seek 44-498xx?

Re: Willow Run Gate Guardian: B-24 - "139" (Kansan)

Tue, 26 Mar 2013 20:57:49 GMT

Al Blue
The underwing serial applied on some TB-24s was a repeat of the Radio Call number, or the same as the numbers which appeared on the vertical stabilizers. Thus a number beginning 44... on a Ford built ship had to be followed by the number 9. The photo link posted by RSWANK (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/y/yhsic1/x-106/* ) can be viewed at an incredible 5578x4208, but even at this super high resolution the third number is really not clear.
However this does, I think, confirm that we are looking at a B-24L.

Al

Al, having a quick look at that hi-res pic with my bifocals cleaned it looks to me like 4498--- but maybe that's because you've told us the third digit has to be a 9. :)

Re: Willow Run Gate Guardian: B-24 - "139" (Kansan)

Tue, 26 Mar 2013 20:51:58 GMT

The return of the original poster over four years after the original post!! Hi Steve. Yes I'm still interested. :) Those pics that you had scanned are from the 1956 book that I had (and can find again, it's in my college library).
I agree about training numbers etc on the nose not necessarily being representative of the AAF serial. A few years back I was exchanging emails with someone who was writing a book / article about memorial B-24s and their fates, and "139' was one of those. It all went a little cold following a few life changes but I'm back. :) Thanks for the effort you've put into this.

Robert

Spain B-24 G/H (G M Strong)

Thu, 19 Apr 2012 10:10:28 GMT

A few years ago three of us were doing research on an aircraft of the 458^th BG, a G Model that landed in Morrocco, and an H of the 459^th (F-WR built) that flew to Majorca after a June mission to France. Both AC along with a handful of others were interned in Spain. The 459^th crew flew the 458^th plane back to Spain from Morrocco in August of ’44 or so and as a part of a deal were returned to allied control via Gibralter.
We were contacted by a Spanish researcher who was investigating these crews and Aircraft, but he never told us why. Upon a wild guess we asked him if there was any possibility either of both AC still existed. We never heard from him again. One can only speculate why he did not respond on this question.

Re: Willow Run Gate Guardian: B-24 - "139" (Al Blue)

Fri, 13 Apr 2012 20:17:10 GMT

The underwing serial applied on some TB-24s was a repeat of the Radio Call number, or the same as the numbers which appeared on the vertical stabilizers. Thus a number beginning 44... on a Ford built ship had to be followed by the number 9. The photo link posted by RSWANK (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/y/yhsic1/x-106/* ) can be viewed at an incredible 5578x4208, but even at this super high resolution the third number is really not clear.
However this does, I think, confirm that we are looking at a B-24L.

Al

Re: Willow Run Gate Guardian: B-24 - "139" (WillowRun)

Fri, 13 Apr 2012 20:02:28 GMT

Hi, Scott, 1st off, Al suggested the "44" while I thought the next might be a "2." Since that post, I have not personally done in research today. As for an in "depth dive," I have not done it other than snooping around out of "curiosity." Note that this is an old post, a "cold case" revived since I now have a copy of the book and am curious yet again. I can't say even whether the original poster has popped back onto this Thread or is still interested. There have been a lot of leads and links here, but probably not on the top of the list of items to be answered. I wish there was a pic somewhere with that bottom of that port wing.....