H2X B-17 installation.

RE: H2X B-17 installation. (Nextgen)

Tue, 08 Apr 2008 20:55:27 GMT

The Vintage Flying Museum in Fort Worth, TX would like to restore it’s B-17G as a Pathfinder. Any leads on parts would be appreciated. The configuration of the plane leads us to believe it was originally intended to be a Pathfinder.

RE: H2X B-17 installation. (ramc181)

Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:07:13 GMT

Great stuff Omega7,

Just what I was after.

Thanks,
Paul

RE: H2X B-17 installation. (omega7)

Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:38:17 GMT

The part that's puzzling me is the upper panel, with four instruments and what looks like the Computer CP7 from the AN/APQ-13 version of H2X.

Paul - Both MICKEY sets were subject to CONTINUOUS wartime improvement with development running nearly concurrent with production. Photos showing early drum computers on APS-15 equipment represent only a snapshot in time.

As a result of general dissatisfaction with MICKEY impact predictors, drum computers were later fitted with an "h"(altitude) + "b" (range) processor for improved placement of the bomb release circle. In a parallel development, dial type computers evolved into the predictor for the later AN/APS-15A variation, superceding earlier drum charts not based on the h + b principle.

These dial computers used replaceable discs to accommodate the ballistics of various bomb types, though most U.S. E & MTO pathfinders typically used a mixed bag of smoke markers and aimable incendiaries.

Attached thumbnails are from the NDRC report and a wartime RADAR periodical. -Adrian

[image]local://4170/BC1532048DD3459197AE0D7F20E53C98.jpg[/image]

[image]local://4170/BFE9BA090C34426497218BD41C48B7CA.jpg[/image]

RE: H2X B-17 installation. (ramc181)

Sun, 16 Mar 2008 13:08:52 GMT

Thanks guys,

I've got the main parts lists for both the AN/APS-15 and AN/APQ-13 Mickey systems, plus how to use both from the various Bombardiers Information Files.

I also found a clearer photo of the instrument panel, which confirms the theories upthread: it's mainly a repeat of the Bombardier's panel with and ASI and Altimeter (top row), plus a power guage and an ADF-style compass on the bottom row.

Once again, it shows an AN/APS-15 setup with the computer from the AN/APQ-13 set. I wonder if this was a supply thing?

The upper panel is shown in this illustration, and the various control boxes.

As for the toggle switches, I don't think the covered one is a bomb release, as the Mickey operator would pass course and target approach info to the Bombardier for entry into the Norden, and later on the Mickey set could directly feed the info to the sight through the CP-17/APA-46 Rate End Converter.
It could be for lowering the scanner, to prevent it hitting the ground, or possibly for the self-destruct system, although I'd expect something a bit more secure than a single switch.

All the best,
Paul

RE: H2X B-17 installation. (Jim B)

Sun, 16 Mar 2008 10:46:10 GMT

http://forum.armyairforces.com/m_77738/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#107642
Read the complete thread. Was there radar on any of the B17s?

More on the Mickey -

July 1944 - fighter threat down. Removed the ball turrets; removed the radio operator and one waist gunner? Mission 896: 1,273 bombers and 675 fighters are dispatched to hit airfields and industrial targets in Germany visually and with H2X radar; clouds force 2 of the 3 forces to hit secondaries; 100+ Luftwaffe fighters including 36 Me 262s in formation (largest number of jets seen as a unit). Book, Lingering Contrails, Chapter 19, pgs. 201-209

Jim B

RE: H2X B-17 installation. (SHAEF1944)

Sun, 16 Mar 2008 01:57:59 GMT

OK, first off, I do NOT know Bombing Through Overcast procedure, so this is just for discussion, and anybody who knows better please correct me.

Seems like the instruments in the upper panel are all ones that a bombardier would have in his nose station.
Since BTO would by definition exclude the normal visual bombardier from doing anything because he could not see through the bombsight, is this panel for bomb release by the H2X operator?
One thing besides the instruments that makes me wonder is the toggle switch with safety cover.

RE: H2X B-17 installation. (Nextgen)

Sun, 16 Mar 2008 00:05:52 GMT

The two top instruments appear to be airspeed and altimeter. The large lower one I think is an old style ADF but not sure. The small one could be an amp-meter, signal strength meter or such. These would have been critical factors for a radar navigator to know. The DR navigator and bombardier had a set too.

H2X B-17 installation. (ramc181)

Sat, 15 Mar 2008 15:58:45 GMT

I'm trying to identify all the H2X components visible in this photo, but I'm not entirely sure if it's a standard AN/APS-15 installation setup. Any Mickey experts here who could help?

I can see the main Reciever-Indicator R78, beside that is the Range Unit C-11 (Oddly enough with no cover over the adjusting screws) and then there's the Control Unit C33 on the fuselage side. An A-11 (AN3047) Reading Lamp is fitted for the operator's desk.
The blackout curtain is drawn and hangs at the left.

The part that's puzzling me is the upper panel, with four instruments and what looks like the Computer CP7 from the AN/APQ-13 version of H2X. The instruments look to include a compass and an ammeter, plus there are three toggle switches at the top of the panel, one with a safety cover. The whole is lit with a C-1 UV Lamp.

Thanks in advance,
Paul