Did the 13th AF or 5th AF Sink the Buenos Aires Maru?

RE: Did the 13th AF or 5th AF Sink the Buenos Aires Maru? (Yunch)

Thu, 22 May 2008 20:55:04 GMT

Rob,
The Enoura Maru was sunk on Jan.9,1945 by US Navy aircraft from the
USS Hornet. Over half of the 500 POWs it was transporting lost their lives.

RE: Did the 13th AF or 5th AF Sink the Buenos Aires Maru? (shooshoobaby)

Thu, 22 May 2008 18:56:31 GMT

Terry - Pacific Theater
By 11/43 B - 17s had ceased Bombing Operations and
were either returning to U.S. or transferred to 54th TCW.
Mike

RE: Did the 13th AF or 5th AF Sink the Buenos Aires Maru? (Yunch)

Thu, 22 May 2008 17:27:59 GMT

Terry T.,
Thanks. Great detail which is lacking in my book. The book I have lists all the US Submarines, their Commanders, all the vessels sunk, dates and tonnage plus all the patrols, so after 577 pages some good facts are lacking and in some cases such as this one, because of the nature of the sinking, it may have been intentional. I say this because the credit for the Maru is listed, but as in other cases it is not cited in the daily actions.
Thanks again, good URL.

RE: Did the 13th AF or 5th AF Sink the Buenos Aires Maru? (Terry T.)

Thu, 22 May 2008 14:06:08 GMT

Janos:
Try this site..
http://www.submarinesailor.com and/or http://www.submarinesailor.com/history/pow/paddlesinksshinyomaru/

The American Prisoners of War Rescued after the sinking of the Japanese transport, Shinyo Maru, by the USS Paddle, SS 263, on 7 September 1944.

Terry T.

RE: Did the 13th AF or 5th AF Sink the Buenos Aires Maru? (Yunch)

Thu, 22 May 2008 13:15:27 GMT

Terry T,
Thanks for your input on the Brazil Aries Maru, I am not going to question it, and it saves me of a further search there. Talk about confliction, I have more D--- Shinyo Marus sunk by different US submarines than "Carter's Little Liver Pills". I have reached Shinyo Maru #8. I will attempt to sort things out to form some kind of time line unless Rob has definite fact that the Paddle sunk the ship in question. Any help here Rob?.

RE: Did the 13th AF or 5th AF Sink the Buenos Aires Maru? (Terry T.)

Thu, 22 May 2008 10:36:18 GMT

While searching the net I have found conflicting reports that either USAAF B-17s or B-24s sunk Japanese army hospital ship Buenos Aires Maru in Steffen Strait SW of Truk, 27 Nov 1943.

Terry T.

RE: Did the 13th AF or 5th AF Sink the Buenos Aires Maru? (RAF_112_Sqdn)

Thu, 22 May 2008 07:06:45 GMT

Thanks Janos, that will fill in a blank area, and make it easier for future information seekers.

Warmest Regards
Rob

RE: Did the 13th AF or 5th AF Sink the Buenos Aires Maru? (Yunch)

Thu, 22 May 2008 06:56:20 GMT

Rob,
The Shinyo a 2,518 ton cargo ship was sunk by the USS Paddle under the command of B. H. Nowell on Sept. 7, 1944 at location 8-11N, 122-40E.
As to the other two ships I will look into those this evening when I have more time.

RE: Did the 13th AF or 5th AF Sink the Buenos Aires Maru? (RAF_112_Sqdn)

Thu, 22 May 2008 06:32:39 GMT

Sometime after 7 May 42, exact dates as yet unknown to me two events one involving Brazil Maru:

The Shinyo Maru was torpedoed by the USS submarine Paddle. A few of the men managed to swim-float-drift, etc., and made it to shore some 2 l/2 miles from the ship. Out of the 700 or so men aboard, only about 82 survived and have been accounted for. Bert Schwarz, O-420648, HQ, 27FG, 3AF, POW, was one of those men. They finally were picked up by submarine and safely delivered to Australia

Source; http://aad.archives.gov/aad/record-detail.jsp?dt=466&mtch=1&cat=GP24&tf=F&q=Gilbo%2C+Edward+E&bc=sl,sd&rpp=10&pg=1&rid=35345

Gilbo, Edward E, O-421600, 17BS, 27FG, 3AF, POW/KIA, Southwest Pacific Theatre: Philippine Islands, PW Camp #2 - Davao Mindanao Philippines 7-125. Died in Ship's Sinking of Enoura Maru. The ship Brazil Maru - Transported survivors of Enoura Maru to Japan (13 - 29 January 1945).
Some POWs died in transit.

Regards
Rob

RE: Did the 13th AF or 5th AF Sink the Buenos Aires Maru? (James Oglethorpe)

Thu, 22 May 2008 03:09:34 GMT

Thanks Janos,

There's a file in Washington which apparently lists attacks on Hospital Ships.
(NARA RG457:SRH-323, summarised on http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/AUS-MILITARY/2006-06/1150462392)
- a lot of this information appears to have been gathered from Axis radio broadcasts, although there is corroborating Allied information in some cases such as submarine names and aircraft gun-camera photos.

This file lists several attacks on Japanese hospital ships in the South Pacific (near places such as Rabaul, New Ireland and the Shortland Islands), including the sinking of the Buenos Aires Maru at 0800 hrs on the 27th of November 1943. The previous damaging of the Buenos Aires Maru by USS Runner on 24 April 1942 near Hong Kong is also mentioned.

It continues to surprise me that it's proving so difficult to work out which USAAF unit sank this Hospital Ship on November 27th.

Cheers from James in Sydney.
3 Squadron RAAF Association

RE: Did the 13th AF or 5th AF Sink the Buenos Aires Maru? (Yunch)

Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:46:31 GMT

Jim,
The USS Runner, SS 275 torpedoed and damaged the Buenos Aires Maru in the south China sea, south of Hong Kong on 24 April 1943, but did not sink her. The word torpedoed may have been misconstrued by some as sunk.

RE: Did the 13th AF or 5th AF Sink the Buenos Aires Maru? (424thBS#1son)

Tue, 28 Aug 2007 12:41:28 GMT

I can see why there's confusion. If you check out these links fully, you will see references to the ship being sunk by B-17's, B-24's and being torpedoed by a sub!

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=active&q=%22Buenos+Aires+Maru%22%2Bsinking&btnG=Search

Did the 13th AF or 5th AF Sink the Buenos Aires Maru? (James Oglethorpe)

Mon, 27 Aug 2007 22:41:48 GMT

I'm hoping that someone will be able to help fill in a mystery that I've been investigating, relating to the sinking of the Buenos Aires Maru . - It's an interesting story, the sinking of a clearly-marked Hospital Ship, sailing alone in broad daylight, but I' ve been unable to find the identity of the USAAF B-24 squadron that claimed the kill.
According to http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/USN-Chron/USN-Chron-1943.html 27 November 1943, Sat.
Pacific USAAF B-24s sink Japanese army hospital ship Buenos Aires Maru in Steffen Strait, 02Â°40'S, 149Â°20'E.

This case is briefly discussed on http://lawofwar.org/Protected%20Persons.htm (about the Geneva Conventions)...

5.3.3 Medical And Religious Personnel

Medical and religious personnel (chaplains) who are "retained" by a detaining power are not considered as prisoners of war, although at a minimum they have all the rights accorded POWs under the Geneva POW Convention. Article 33 provides in part that they:

...shall also be granted all facilities necessary to provide for the medical care of, and religious ministration to prisoners of war. They shall continue to exercise their medical and spiritual functions for the benefit of prisoners of war, preferably those belonging to the armed forces upon which they depend, within the scope of the military laws and regulations of the Detaining Power and under the control of its competent services, in accordance with their professional etiquette.

During the Second World War, Japan claimed that the United States routinely attacked clearly marked Japanese hospital ships. Given the Japanese history of misuse of the red cross emblem (found repeatedly in POW autobiographies after the war), the claims, which may well be accurate, could still describe justified conduct:

On December 15 [1943] the Japanese foreign office sent a circular message, Number 467, to its major embassies abroad. It reported, "Japanese hospital ship Buenos Aires Maru was attached by a United States aircraft, Consolidated B-24. Vessel was hit by a bomb on port side and sunk in about forty minutes." Survivors--wounded soldiers, doctors and a large contingent of nurses going home on leave--then crowded into eighteen lifeboats. The message went on to report that although red sheets forming a red cross had been held aloft, an American plane, coming in at an altitude of only about three hundred feet, machine-gunned the lifeboats. The attack on the Buenos Aires Maru was not an isolated incident. The communique reported that ten other clearly marked hospital ships had been attacked by American aircraft.

Joseph E. Persico, Roosevelt's Secret War 244, Random House (New York, 2001).

Questions To Consider About Other Protected Persons

5.3.1 If a party abuses the use of the red cross emblem, how may the other side respond? Were the U.S. attacks on the Buenos Aires Maru and other ships justified? etc.

The Combat Reports of the 13th AF 307th BG listed below add no light so far - according to them they were attacking Rabaul on 27NOV and "sub hunting" some distance away from the sinking of the Buenos Aires Maru . (http://www.missingaircrew.com/images/307gif/00381.gif , http://www.missingaircrew.com/images/307gif/00585.gif and http://www.missingaircrew.com/images/307gif/00586.gif.) ...Maybe I'm still looking in the wrong place! Other B-24s that were sinking ships near Kavieng in November 1943 were in the 5th Air Force, not the 13th - but they certainly didn't officially claim the hospital ship. http://www.kensmen.com/nov43.html Any help would be appreciated.
James.
3 Squadron RAAF Association. Sydney.