Stalag-Luft IV

Re:Stalag-Luft IV (refidnasb)

Sun, 01 Mar 2009 10:55:27 GMT

Below is the photo of the small harbor where the crew was taken. They were brought into the small customs house in the center of the photo. It's the largest grey building in the photo. I believe that's where the plaque was attached to the building.

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/596561.jpg

Here is the google map of where they ditched

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&safe=off&q=Rue+de+Pors+Grouen,+29710+Ploz%C3%A9vet,+Finistere,+Brittany,+France&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=Fcgv3AIdrP27_w&split=0&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=23.875,57.630033&ll=47.98445,-4.46311&spn=0.006865,0.013733&t=h&z=16

Pors Poulhan, France.

As you can see, they were really far from England!

Re:Stalag-Luft IV (refidnasb)

Sat, 28 Feb 2009 19:40:07 GMT

rmatcham

My father Robert S.Matcham's,S/Sgt,B-17 waist gunner, plane crashed 3/20/44. He was taken prisoner and sent to Stalag Luft IV. I am trying to find out if he was in the "Death March" from Stalag Luft IV and if there were any survivors that are stillalive that crashed with him. Other crew members that were with him in Stalag Luft IV were: Russell M. Rose, Garland C. Carson, Eugene F. Copp, Clyde V. Craig, Harry F. Dever. Lt.George McIntosh was the pilot.I am looking for anyone that knows the fate of these men. My father died at 49 yrs. old. I was wondering if they had better lives and maybe still alive.

Hope this message find you! Thread is a little old, but better late than never.

George McIntosh was my great uncle. He was the pilot of the B-17 that your father was on when it crash landed into the Atlantic on 3/20/1944. He passed away in the summer of 2006. He lived a great long life. 3 children, 3 grandchildren. He was Chief Engineer of Transco(now Williams) in Houston, Texas. He retired to the Texas Hill Country and in addition to being an avid golfer, was also heavily involved in the local POW group and attended many of the national Kriegie reunions.

I believe your father was one of the men my uncle tried to find for many many years. After the crash, the crew was divided up by the Germans. Some went to Stalag Luft III, some went elsewhere. He was in Stalag Luft III with a couple of the officers. After liberation, at Camp Lucky Strike, my uncle ran across two more men from that crew. None knew what happened to the others and assumed the worst. My uncle tried many different ways to contact the missing crew members, so did the other guys that he met annually after the war.

I have a detailed first person account of the ditching that day from a journal that he wrote about 8 years ago. In addition, he was contacted by the French village where they dirched in 1999-2000. Many of the fisherman and townspeople who rowed out to rescue the crew that day are still alive. He was contacted by an aviation museum in that part of France. There were several newspaper articles published about it from 2000-2003. My uncle paid to have a brass plaque installed on the side of a building near the shore, expressing gratitude to the townspeople for rescuing them that day. He was unable to attend the ceremony in France but they sent him photos and newpaper clippings.

Aircraft was ditched about 1km offshore because the coastline was mined and full of obstacles. They were returning on a bombing mission to Mannheim. The entire group got lost on the way back, their aircraft was badly shot up from both fighters and flak. They followed the group, after some time the group realized their navigation error and turned back the right way for England. The B-17 my uncle was in could not make it back and had to ditch.

After the ditching, one of the liferafts was found to be destroyed from flak, so 8 men got in the good life raft, while my uncle and the "crew chief" possibly one of the waist gunners, stayed out on the wing. After some time, the plane started to sink, there was no room in the raft so they were lashed to the side where they almost died.

In an even more unique twist, the Germans told the French that they were forbidden from rescuing the B-17 crew. The Germans said that the cold would eventually take them and should just be left out there. After some time, the French prepared a long fishing row boat, like a sardine boat of some kind. They were allowed to get the crew after alot of haggling and after the German Police showed up. The German Police went with the French in the boat not the solidiers. What really saved them is that the German officer in charge of that area was gone for the day. Had he been there, there would have been no rescue. The crew was near death frm exposure when rescued.

The town fashioned a very famous shovel out of part of the aircraft aluminum. I'm not sure how they got the metal, if the aircraft was salvaged or what. But in a bar, in this town where all these guys still sit around drinking, just like they did in 1944, is the "American Shovel". It's the only thing that touched that town in WW2 involving any actual notable event, other than German occupation. So many people know about it.

There's more if you are interested. I would also like to hear what happened to your father after capture, if you would like to share. For my uncle, the ditching was only a small part of the misery he would endure till liberation. Harsh living conditions as a POW and a death march were other major chapters in his WW2 experience.

RE: Stalag-Luft IV (seesul)

Mon, 13 Aug 2007 05:06:38 GMT

a friend of mine, Joesph P. Owsinaik from 2ndBG,20thSqdn, a former right waist gunner of B-17G, that was shot down on Aug. 29th 1944, was in the same POW camp Stalag Luft IV. Was on Dead March as well and this is the map he sent me, see attachment please.
HeÂ´s still alive and going to visit me in 2 weeks for 2 weeks stay. Will visit his crash place again after 63 years.

Greeting from Czech Republic

RE: Stalag-Luft IV (myerlee)

Mon, 13 Aug 2007 02:39:51 GMT

dtwright1800's message, now just named 'Guest'...where are you David Wright? " Have you heard anything else on info from the guy you were talking to about my uncle Walter?"
**************************************************
A bit late in responding, but heard from Mr. O'Donnell: Your Uncle Walter Crusoe ASN 36453241 was POW #52491 in Stalag IV. He was liberated at Fallingbostel on March 29,1945.

Hope you read this...Donna

RE: Stalag-Luft IV (Guest)

Sat, 21 Jul 2007 08:31:59 GMT

" />

Donna,

Have you heard anything else on info from the guy you were talking to about my uncle Walter?

RE: Stalag-Luft IV (Bruce Carson)

Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:30:09 GMT

Sorry I'm late - but here's what I've found from several sources for crew status -- probably alot of repeat ...
Cheers
BC
===
20-Mar-44, 381st BG, A/C 42-31381, MACR-3415
===
Serial #, Name, Position, Home Town, State, Birth, Death, Last Residence, SS#
===
STALAG LUFT 4:
19170262, S/Sgt Garland C. Carson, Bottom Turret, Stanfield / Vale, Oregon.
33467704, T/Sgt Harry F. Dever, Top Turret, 2824 Poplar, Philadelphia, PA.
35133849, S/Sgt Eugene F. Copp, Left Waist, 92 E. Dayton St., West Alexandria, OH,
26-May-14, 25-Jan-05, 45320 Eaton, Preble, OH, 288-07-9294.
13064516, S/Sgt Clyde V. Craig, Tail Gunner, Harlan, KY,
23-Oct-25, 21-Jul-94, 40468 Perryville, Boyle, KY, 405-26-8435.
12030592, S/Sgt Robert S. Matcham, Right Waist, 12 Prospect St., Clark Mills, NY,
9-Dec-18, Jul-67,NY,127-01-6274.
37324353, T/Sgt Russell M. Rose, RO, 2726 Chicago Ave., Minneapolis, MN
15-May-22, 10-Nov-97, 55417 (Minneapolis, Hennepin, MN), 476-16-6072.

STALAG LUFT 1:
O-687903, Lt Nicholas R. Rabay, Navigator, North Compound 1, 773 Carroll St., Brooklyn, NY.
O-736629, 2Lt Carl W. Dittus, Bomb, 3640 Fithian Ave., Cincinnati, OH.
O-807408, 2Lt Robert J. Fowler, Co-Pilot, 104 80th St., Brooklyn, NY.

STALAG LUFT 3, then STALAG 7A:
O-666770, Lt George B. McIntosh Jr., Pilot, 702 HOLLYWOOD Ave., Dallas, TX,
18-Nov-16, Oct-84, 77662 (Vidor, Orange, TX), 459-05-2102,
NOTE: DULAG LUFT from 3/23/44 to 3/24/44, STALAG LUFT III from 3/26/44 to Stalag 7A -- HIT by FLAK. NO.1-2-3 ENGINES DESTROYED. DITCHED 2 miles West of the WESTERN TIP OF BREST PENINSULA. DRIFTED 30 minutes in a DINGHY, PICKED UP by GERMAN INFANTRY IN FISHING BOAT.

RE: Stalag-Luft IV (myerlee)

Mon, 16 Jul 2007 17:54:40 GMT

ORIGINAL: dtwright1800

But, anyway, that would be fantastic to find out if he knew my Uncle also.
I'm praying that he might be able to give me just a little info....

Thanx again.... I really appreciate it " />.

Hello David,

I received a response today from Mr. O'Donnell (former Stalag IV POW). Unfortunately, he did not know your Uncle Walter Crusoe, but he is going to look at some other lists to see if your Uncle's name is on any of them...hoping to glean more info for you.

If you are interested in buying the 'Barbed Wire Interlude', he does have more copies...cost is $9 including postage. I'll send you his direct email if you're interested, etc.

The following 2 links are related to Mr. O'Donnell, a fine gentleman, who I feel very privileged to know.
http://leroymyers.awardspace.us/POWPhotos.html
http://www.hvrsd.k12.nj.us/District/news/VetsShare.htm-- he is the gentleman in the red sports jacket

Donna

RE: Stalag-Luft IV (Guest)

Mon, 16 Jul 2007 15:26:00 GMT

Yes, I believe I recieved your message. It might have been one of the subs that I have from the site too.

But, anyway, that would be fantastic to find out if he knew my Uncle also.
I'm praying that he might be able to give me just a little info....

Thanx again.... I really appreciate it " />.

RE: Stalag-Luft IV (myerlee)

Sun, 15 Jul 2007 23:41:32 GMT

ORIGINAL: dtwright1800

Yes, it did state that he was in that location, Stalag Luft 4, that is. I am just really confused on the:
Stalag Luft 4 Gross-Tychow (formerly Heydekrug) Pomerania, Prussia (moved to Wobbelin Bei Ludwigslust) (To Usedom Bei Savenmunde) 54-16 .

I guess it can vbe a little confusing, and I wish I had a roster that he was labeled under.[sm=rolleyes.gif]

Hello David,

I purchased 'Barbed Wire Interlude' booklet by Robert Ludden. The POW's are organized by state...your Uncle Walter was included with a Michigan address at that time. The collection of the prisoner names/addresses originated in Lager A of Stalag IV, using scraps of paper & cigarette wrappers--their only available materials. Eventually, more names & addresses trickled in from Lagers B, C, & D. Their efforts were temporarily interrupted by the advancing Russians, whereby the Germans' decided to evacuate Stalag IV. The 'List' continued among POW's being thrown together & eventually arrived at its completed state in Stalag I.

If you're interested in puchasing the paperback 'Barbed Wire Interlude' booklet...I purchased my copy from Joseph O'Donnell, former Stalag IV POW, who was in Lager B, Barracks 3, Room 9--the exact same room with my Uncle!! I feel so fortunate to have met 1 person who actually personally knew Uncle as a fellow POW! Anyhow, I will forward your Uncle's name & photo to Mr. O'Donnell...with the possibility that he may have known your Uncle....will also inquire about cost & availability of the above booklet.

The Amercan Ex-Prisoners of War website may be able to provide you with Lager & Barracks location of your Uncle in Stalag IV, membership is optionable & available to families. http://www.axpow.org/default.htm

The following link shows a map & general information of Stalag IV...unfortunately, our Uncles are not included on this site's Prisoner/Deceased rosters. http://www.b24.net/pow/rose/map.html

Please check your inbox...I was in the process of sending you an email via this site...but inadvertantly, my finger struck a key other than intended...and voila!-I believe the incomplete email was prematurely sent :(

Donna

RE: Stalag-Luft IV (Guest)

Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:32:58 GMT

" /> I'll tell yah I cant wait to get my copie. I have looked and looked for info. I have been very fortunate to have all of you guys to help me out.

I hope someday I can do the same for others.[sm=rolleyes.gif]

RE: Stalag-Luft IV (Yunch)

Thu, 12 Jul 2007 11:57:45 GMT

For what ever this is worth, you will not regret the investment, especially if you have/had "kinfolk" that endured the hardships and atrocities of " POW Prison" and forced march life. If you let your mind wander, it puts you into their shoes a tad short of their sufferings.

RE: Stalag-Luft IV (Guest)

Thu, 12 Jul 2007 08:12:13 GMT

I have just bought the book and waiting for it. Can'wait to read it and find out some more info on what my uncle had to deal with. Though it must have been utterly appualing, just need a little more background on it.

RE: Stalag-Luft IV (Yunch)

Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:53:41 GMT

I do have the book, and have had it for years. my problem was/is "Old timers disease". Having been totaly away from the German language for 20 plus years the
"bei" threw me a curve. I knew what it meant, but I developed brain lock and could not see beyond it to make it, "by way of".

RE: Stalag-Luft IV (Guest)

Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:14:14 GMT

Group Member

Posts: 24
Joined: 11/13/2005
Status: offline Hello all...

After reading Janos post #9 ...I decided to copy-&-paste my
8-13-06 entry detailing the German enforced 'Death March' into this thread with a few translation corrections as per Janos suggestion--thanks :)
--------------

Although you have already received several msg-board responses...I decided to include my 2-cents...primarily because my Uncle had the same identical military records of David Wright's Uncle Walter Crusoe : Stalag Luft 4 Gross-Tychow (formely Heydekrug) Promerania, Prussia (moved to Wobbelin Bei Ludwigslust) (To Usedom Bei Savenmunde)".

My Uncle Leroy E. Myers was a prisoner in Stalag Luft VI, then transferred to Stalag Luftwaffe IV. He was captured March 1944 & sent by rail- car to Stalag VI in Heydekrug, East Prussia. With the Russians advancing, Stalag VI was evacuated...he was forced to board a midnight 'Baltic cruise', where the airmen were packed-like-sardines into the cargo-hold of an old boat...then endured beatings & dogs biting at-their-heels, while handcuffed to another POW & made to run to their new home called Stalag IV...if one of the men fell-during this 'Run-up-the-Road', usually both were bayoneted or executed.

Only Gross-Tychow and Heydekrug were prison camp locations: Gross-Tychow was Stalag IV...and Heydekrug was Stalag VI. Usedom Bei(by way of) Swienmunde and Wobbelin Bei(by way of) Ludwigslust are 4 towns that the evacuating airmen prisoners passed thru during the freezing harsh conditions of the winter Death March in 1945. Usedom and Swienmunde are geographically nearby, just as Wobbelin and Ludwigslust are in close vicinity. Wobbelin is approximately 4 km. north of Ludwigslust, but I have not yet been able to specifically find its name on a map.

In early February 1945, Stalag IV was evacuated...thus began the 'Shoe Leather Express'--an 80-90 day/500 mile freezing Death March...many suffered frostbite, dysentary, dehydration, starvation &/or death...not a well publicized Death March, unlike the Bataan Death March.

I've been researching Uncle's military life for the past several years...and have discovered the following:

A) Heydekrug's Stalag VI was located in East Prussia...along the Baltic coast.
B) Stalag Luft 4 was located in Gross-Tychow in Pomerania, Prussia. Pomerania was a large province in Prussia. Enclosed are websites with 2 maps showing Pomerania.
1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomerania Pomerania is outlined on the background of modern country borders.
2) http://feefhs.org/maps/gere/ge-pomer.html Notice the 'Pomerania' in large caps in the pink-colored Prussian province along the Baltic sea coast...Gross-Tychow is next to the 'N' in Pomerania on right side of screen...note the towns Usedom and Swienmunde below intersection of 1st horizontal latitudinal line & 2nd left vertical longitude line (Swienmunde & Swinemunde are both used interchangeably in maps, but it is incorrectly spelled as Savenmunde in Uncle's military records also)
C) Ludswiglust, Germany...a town on the evacuation route from Stalag IV.

As with another response, I suggest reading The Last Escape' by John Nichol & Tony Rennell.

In closing, I'll also take this opportunity to promote a tribute website to Uncle...planned & designed by my children as a Christmas 2006 present to me--needless to say, it was the most treaured & priceless gift received! http://leroymyers.awardspace.us/

Donna Mason
niece of Leroy E. Myers, 1918-1956
8th AF, 95th BG, 412th squadron

This is fantastic info to keep in my records. Is this what all of the guys went through? Terrible cirrcumstances for such young men.....

RE: Stalag-Luft IV (Guest)

Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:08:59 GMT

Hey everybody, I thought that I would send a picture of my Uncle, Walter C. Crusoe Jr., and see if any of the older fella's knew him at one time or another.

I know that Ian White might want a copy due to, Uncle Walt, being in the Buttrey crew and all.

Please let me know if anybody knows anything more.

Thanks....
David

RE: Stalag-Luft IV (Robersabel)

Tue, 10 Jul 2007 18:02:43 GMT

Donnna Mason,

endured beatings suffered frostbite

I compliment your tribute, but do you not believe your uncle should receive what was earned? According to the statements, he earned at least one prestigious Purple Heart medal.

The primary item is the proof from his medical records or testimony by a fellow former POW.

Robert
Robersabel@aol.com

RE: Stalag-Luft IV (ng19delta)

Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:16:09 GMT

The book "The Last Escape" 2002 by John Nichol and Tony Rennell, Viking Press, gives a very in depth description of the march from Stalag IV Gross Tychow to Stalag XIB and 357, Fallingbostel (Chapter 5)

I recommend this book to anyone who reads about the Kreigsgefangenen(Kregies) in WWII.

Perhaps you might find some insight in there...

Robbie

RE: Stalag-Luft IV (Yunch)

Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:49:24 GMT

Donna,
Thank you, I'm just sorry I had not seen your reply weeks ago to reply to another queary. In that one, the lady got the information as you have it, from her father. Nice job and input on your part.

RE: Stalag-Luft IV (myerlee)

Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:42:09 GMT

Hello all...

After reading Janos post #9 ...I decided to copy-&-paste my
8-13-06 entry detailing the German enforced 'Death March' into this thread with a few translation corrections as per Janos suggestion--thanks :)
--------------

Although you have already received several msg-board responses...I decided to include my 2-cents...primarily because my Uncle had the same identical military records of David Wright's Uncle Walter Crusoe : Stalag Luft 4 Gross-Tychow (formely Heydekrug) Promerania, Prussia (moved to Wobbelin Bei Ludwigslust) (To Usedom Bei Savenmunde)".

My Uncle Leroy E. Myers was a prisoner in Stalag Luft VI, then transferred to Stalag Luftwaffe IV. He was captured March 1944 & sent by rail- car to Stalag VI in Heydekrug, East Prussia. With the Russians advancing, Stalag VI was evacuated...he was forced to board a midnight 'Baltic cruise', where the airmen were packed-like-sardines into the cargo-hold of an old boat...then endured beatings & dogs biting at-their-heels, while handcuffed to another POW & made to run to their new home called Stalag IV...if one of the men fell-during this 'Run-up-the-Road', usually both were bayoneted or executed.

Only Gross-Tychow and Heydekrug were prison camp locations: Gross-Tychow was Stalag IV...and Heydekrug was Stalag VI. Usedom Bei(by way of) Swienmunde and Wobbelin Bei(by way of) Ludwigslust are 4 towns that the evacuating airmen prisoners passed thru during the freezing harsh conditions of the winter Death March in 1945. Usedom and Swienmunde are geographically nearby, just as Wobbelin and Ludwigslust are in close vicinity. Wobbelin is approximately 4 km. north of Ludwigslust, but I have not yet been able to specifically find its name on a map.

In early February 1945, Stalag IV was evacuated...thus began the 'Shoe Leather Express'--an 80-90 day/500 mile freezing Death March...many suffered frostbite, dysentary, dehydration, starvation &/or death...not a well publicized Death March, unlike the Bataan Death March.

I've been researching Uncle's military life for the past several years...and have discovered the following:

A) Heydekrug's Stalag VI was located in East Prussia...along the Baltic coast.
B) Stalag Luft 4 was located in Gross-Tychow in Pomerania, Prussia. Pomerania was a large province in Prussia. Enclosed are websites with 2 maps showing Pomerania.
1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomerania Pomerania is outlined on the background of modern country borders.
2) http://feefhs.org/maps/gere/ge-pomer.html Notice the 'Pomerania' in large caps in the pink-colored Prussian province along the Baltic sea coast...Gross-Tychow is next to the 'N' in Pomerania on right side of screen...note the towns Usedom and Swienmunde below intersection of 1st horizontal latitudinal line & 2nd left vertical longitude line (Swienmunde & Swinemunde are both used interchangeably in maps, but it is incorrectly spelled as Savenmunde in Uncle's military records also)
C) Ludswiglust, Germany...a town on the evacuation route from Stalag IV.

As with another response, I suggest reading The Last Escape' by John Nichol & Tony Rennell.

In closing, I'll also take this opportunity to promote a tribute website to Uncle...planned & designed by my children as a Christmas 2006 present to me--needless to say, it was the most treaured & priceless gift received! http://leroymyers.awardspace.us/

Donna Mason
niece of Leroy E. Myers, 1918-1956
8th AF, 95th BG, 412th squadron

RE: Stalag-Luft IV (Robersabel)

Mon, 09 Jul 2007 23:28:46 GMT

Stalag Luft 4 Gross-Tychow (formerly Heydekrug) Pomerania, Prussia (moved to Wobbelin Bei Ludwigslust) (To Usedom Bei Savenmunde) 54-16 .

According to the path, the map in the URL below I numbered the locations when arrived.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/Robersabel/POW%20Map/POWRoute.jpg

Robert