needing uniform information

Hello,
 
     I'm trying to find which buttons, pins, and patches my great uncle would have had on his dress uniform.  He was a radio operator on B-17's.  I suspect he would have had gunners wings, but not sure if he went through gunnery school.  Not sure if he would have had technical patches or what.  I want to get a shadow box made with what he would have had.  Thanks

Jim,

Thanks for the Information.  I have received his mission list from the 99th BGHS and I have also received his records from St. Louis, but I think that the information I got are limited due to the fire in 73 and that I'm not considered next of kin.  The records do state his decorations and awards, except the air medal he was awarded while in Stalag Luft 3.  I do have a copy of a Army Service Forces letter of the Air Medal decoration that was awarded to him.

As for the County Records Office I have not tired to search for his DD-214.  Also have not tired the German KU reports, not sure how to look for that.

Lee...At the top of the Forums on the first window of  this website is a Block mrked RESEARCH..this section will mention the KU reports with the addresses to write to.

Jim  :-)

 Jim,
 
Is this the communication patch you mentioned of?

Attached Image(s)

Lee.... Yes that is the one I mentioned. Mine was also a trangular patch, but had a gear.

JIm :-)

Thank you, Jim for your help.

Jim,
Would he also be able to have the unit citation patch on his right sleeve above his speciality patch?

Lee....No, IF he was in the unit, during the period for which the Distinguished Unit Award wss given, the DUC was worn over the RIGHT pocket.

The Award applied to all members of a unit, ground personnel as well as aircrews, permanently, thereafter, The assignment of new personnel assigned after the date of award wuild wear the DUC, ONLY for as long as they were assigned to a unit that was awarded the DUC...upon transfer, those perssonel would not longer be authorzied to wear the DUC.

I was assigned to the 99th BG and was so authorized, while assigned, ...when I was, after the war, assigned to the 92nd BG/BW, I wore the DUC, as they also had been awarded the DUC, but, again, ONLY while assigned to that unit. When later, I was assigned to the 99th SRW and 99th BW, the same rules applied. When I retired, I was no longer authorized to wear the DUC, as I was NOT in either unit, when the DUC was authorized.
 
Mulitple awards were authorized (up to 5 awards were authorized a bronze oak leaf....multiuple awards over 5,  were awarded a silver oak leaf for each 5 additional awards).
.
Jim :-)

jpeters140
 

 
Mulitple awards were not authorized to wear duplicate insignia, I.E. a Unit with two or three DUC awards, wore only the single DUC.

Jim :-)

Jim,
 
Weren't multiple awards of the DUC indicated by oak leaf clusters on the bar as it is with medal ribbons?  I always thought this was the case, though I don't have any backup    documentation

Bob...I stand corrected, and have corrected the referenced message.

Jim :-)

That's the way I understand it. My dad was grounds crew mechanic with the 347th in from 42 and to the end. His DD- 214 has the DUC with 1 oak leaf. I was wondering more about a DUC patch that I have seen in photo's that are sewn on the sleeve above the speciality patch. Of course, this is probably getting off the original shadow box question but I was curious about this unit citation patch I've seen in some photos while doing uniform research. I wondered about the patch as far as the men of the 99th knowing that the 99th was awarded 2 citations.
 
I've attached a copy of the sleeve patch for Unit Citation and here's a description.
 
The History:  The Meritorious Unit Citation was authorized by the War Department on August 23rd, 1945.  It was awarded on a unit basis to organizations who had performed meritoriously in combat areas.  Individuals who were a part of the unit when it was awarded continue to wear this patch upon transfer to other units.  Individuals assigned to the unit after the action for which the citation was awarded may only wear it while they are assigned to the unit.  This plain design was given for the first award of the Meritorious Unit Citation.
 
Jim, thanks as your info was very helpful.

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Lee,

I checked my roster information and your uncle was on the roster for the 99th for their 2nd Unit Citation, so he would be entitled to wear the ribbon.

Marty Upchurch
99th BGHS

Thanks guys for all the information.  The question I have on the Unit Citation is, since my uncle was entitled to wear it would it have had the oak leaf as mentioned above by Bob Gilbert or would it not because the first Unit Citation was given before my uncle was in the 99th? 
 
Is this the DUC?

Attached Image(s)

Lee...Repeat..my message #9....Read carefully.

The Award applied to all members of a unit, ground personnel as well as aircrews, permanently, thereafter, The assignment of new personnel assigned after the date of award would wear the DUC, ONLY for as long as they were assigned to a unit that was awarded the DUC...upon transfer, those perssonel would not longer be authorzied to wear the DUC.

The answer would be NO....You had to be assigned to the unit for the time period that the award covered...so the previous award therefore would not qualify him for PERMANENT WEARING of the award.
 
As I mentioned, I was in two different units that were awarded the DUC, and it was part of my uniform AS LONG AS I WAS ASSIGNED TO THAT UNIT..however, once I left those units I could no longer wear the DUC, as I had not been assigned to the unit at the time of the award.
 
Jim :-)

So, Lee's uncle was entitled to wear the ribbon permanently because he was part of the group when they were awarded their 2nd DUC, but he would not have an OLC for it as he was not there when they got their first DUC, correct?

Marty

Marty .This correct. Except that all long as he was in the unit...he could wear both DUCs, but, when he left the unit, he could only wear what he was authorized...and he was not there when the first one was awarded.
Everyone in the unit...ALL ground personnel included, HAVE to be assigned to the unit, during the time that the action took place.

Even though I was assigned to a unit that had been awarded the DUC(s), I wore it/them, as part of my uniform, WHILE I was assigned to that unit, however, UNLESS I was assigned to the unit at the time for which the award was given, I could not wear it permanently.

He could wear the SECOND DUC, but not the first, so no Oak Leaf Cluster was authorized.

As I mentioned, as long as I was assigned to those two units, I wore the DUC(s) that each unit was awarded but as soon as I left the unit, I was no longer authorized to wear ANY DUC, as I was not part of the unit at the time of the award. It would not matter if ground pesonnel, whether cooks, aircraft maintenance (non-flying) or other........... All ASSIGNED PERSONNEL IN THE UNIT AT THE TIME WERE AWARDED THE DUC(s).

Jim :-)

Thank you Jim and Marty on getting me correct on the DUC.  Now the Air Medal, what was the requirements on getting the medal?  My uncle was awarded the Air Medal with 1 silver oak leaf and 1 bronze oak leaf.

Lee...In the15th AAF at the time I flew...after the first five missions, all of our crew were awarded the original Air Medal, after the next ten missions, the second Air Medal was awarded and every 10 missions after that.

The reason I specified the 15th AAF, is that the award varied with each AAF.  I read somewhere that some units in the CBI (China-Burma-India) theater in Cargo aircraft...not directly normally in a combat status, were awarded the first Air Medal after 70 or so cargo missions...whether this is true, I cannot say,

Verification of the award to cargo units will have to come from some one in the cargo business.

Perhaps Bob Gilbert or Bill Runnels will chime in here for the 8th AAF.

I am authorized the Air Medal with 2 Bronze Stars for the 27 missions I flew...the first after the first five missions, the second at 15 missions, and the third at 25 missions.
 
Added....According to my figures, based on the method of awarding DURING MY TOUR, if the awards were calculated, he would have been awarded just the original plus two Bronze Stars, with 33 missions....so, his awards of a total of 7 Air Medals ( the original, plus the Silver star equaling 5 awards for a total of six, plus one Bronze Star, would equal a total of 7.
 
(By the method of calculating during my tour, he should have a total of 65 missions, so I can only conclude that the awarding must have been changed to reflect his total of 33 missions).
 
Perhaps Jules Horowitz can post his total of Air Medals as he flew 50 actual missions during his tour.
Jim :-)

Lee,
In the 8th AF during my time, a tour (approx. after D Day) was 35 missions.  The Air Medal was awarded upon completion of  6 missions and another award, signified by a bronze Oak Leaf cluster, for each 6 missions thereafter, excepting one for the last 5 missions.  Thus a 35 mission tour would receive an AM plus 5 bronze OL clusters, symbolized by one silver OL cluster.  Earlier when the tour was 30 missions the AM and each OL cluster was for 5 missions thus resulting in the same count as later...one AM and 5 OL clusters.