hello,
 
on 30.Febr.1944, one B-17 was shot down at Hävern/Petershagen, near Rahden. I am searching for the plane.
 
gruß
uwe

Crashplaces in Germany
www.spurensuche-owl.de

Hi Uwe

check your calendar 30!! February

I have B-17G-10-DL, 42-37798 331st BS/94th BG
January 11,  1944
crashed at D 32369 Rahden
with the William E. Service Crew

have a nice weekend

Hartmut

hi,

sorry, my mistake.

30.Jan.1944 !

It was not the 1st Lt Service crew !
 
the targets were Brunswick and Hanover.

gruß
uwe

Crashplaces in Germany
www.spurensuche-owl.de

Greetings Hartmut,
 
I'm very curious why you mentioned William Service's B17???
My good friend George Bragdon was a waist gunner on that plane.  Two of the crew (first two men out) were killed by civilians.  George himself was saved by a German soldier who trained his gun on a mob and kept them at bay.
 
Do you know something about this plane or its crew?
 
Thank you,
Andy Mays in Maine

Hello Andy

at first "Big Stoop" was only a shoot in the dark. It is at this time the only Fortress for me in the  D 32369 Rahden Area.
The MACR 1883 has only the opinion that both airman where killed by civilians.
If you look at NARA for Dikeman, Levi A. and Westover, Richard B. you can see both listed as POW and died as POW.
More about the January 11, 1944 you can find in Jan van der Kuylens excellent book
"The Killing Sky - The Story of January 11, 1944" (a dutch private print) there is an interview with Lt. Service, if you want, I can send you a copy in a PM.

best regards Hartmut

Hello Hartmut,
Alvin Baltzer's parents were from Germany and he spoke the language fluently.  He spoke with his captors (after they had all been rounded up) who told him Dikeman and Westover died in the crash.  Alvin told them that was a lie, Dikeman and Westover were the first men out, before the others. 
You're right that it was the opinion reflected in the MACR that they were killed by civilians.  Based on their own harrowing experiences and what the German's told them, Baltzer, George Bragdon and Melvin Schwasinger (top turret) are adamant that Dikeman and Westover were killed.  Though captured separately, all three had the same account.  In each case, one or two brave soldiers had to point their weapons at the closing mob to keep the airmen alive  (I spoke with George, Melvin and Alvin's brother).  There may be more to the story.  I don't know why NARA would list them as POWs.  Maybe it was the simplest thing to do.

One another footnote.  "Big Stoop" was named for Lt Service, a tall, lanky man with a slightly "stooped" posture.
Thanks for your insight.  I would appreciate Lt. Service's interview from the book.

Best wishes,
Andy in Maine

Hello Andy,
I'm Tom Hart, George's grandson. I believe we have met, on a couple of different occasions.

I have been recently gathering photos and files and getting everything organized on the computer. As a result, have been doing a lot more research lately. Oh...the questions I have come up with for Gramp.

I have found this site extremely interested. I'm hopeful someone, perhaps from his crew or squadron, may see this and some insights (if I'm really lucky - some pictures). Do you know if Melvin visits this site?

I spoke with Gramp about Dikeman and Westover as well. He was pretty adamant they were killed. I reviewed some Casualty Questionnaires last night, and that was what Alvin and Melvin had said there as well.

Take care, and thanks for some enlightening reading regarding my grandfather.
Tom