Missing Aircraft Loading Lists

I have input into my World War II database the 533rd Bomb Squadron mission loading lists up to the 12 Sep 44 mission.  I need help with the following crew loading lists.

27 Sept 43
Shenk crew

11 June 44
Winter crew

18 June 44
Melomo crew

4 July 44
Anderson, Huber, Masterson, O'Dell, Palmer, Tarr, Wilson crews

6 July 44
Huber, Masterson, Nelson LA, O'Black, O'Dell, Palmer, Pearce, Wezowicz, Wilson crews

7 July 44
Carroll, Henderson, Huber, LaPierre, Masterson, Nelson LA, O'Black, Palmer, Pearce, Usher, Winter crews

9 July 44
Henderson, O'Dell, Palmer, Pearce, Tarr, Wilson crews

1 Aug 44
Cochran, Usher, Nelson LA, Long, O'Dell, Berkley, Fenton, Carroll, Huber, Masterson crews

I have developed queries to get information from the database concerning the missions flown by individual crewmen should anyone need this information(no charge).  Unfortunately with the missing missions the data would be incomplete.  Any assistance in documenting these missing mission crew lists would be greatly appreciated.

I'll make a deal with you--I'm going to Washington D.C. in a little over a month for some research and I would be happy to look up your crew loadings at the National Archives in College Park--presuming they have them.
 
In return--what do your 533rd loading records show for crew on my father's (2nd Lt. John M. Carah) missions on 22 June 1943 (Antwerp), and 29 June 1943 (Tricqueville).  He was probably flying as a CP, but I can't find the identity of the first pilot and crew he flew with on either mission.  He was a CP to Olof Ballinger when he was shot down on 4 July 1943 (LeMans).
 
Thanks,
 
 

Warren,
          Here are the crews that I have for 533 BS on 22 Jun 43.  Your father may have flown with another squadron.  I don't have access to the 532 BS crew loading lists for that date and 534 BS crew loading lists for that date are not on the roll of microfilm.  I will attempt to look at the 535 BS tomorrow.  I have the crew loading list for your father's 28 Jun 43 aborted mission and the 29 Jun 43 mission.  I will send those listings next.

42-30021   VP-G      DNR
pilot          1Lt      John J Martin Jr    KIA      664424
copilot       FO      Robert J Marsh     KIA    T-342
navigator    2Lt    Harry R Long       POW      736012
bombardier    2Lt    Wallace W Hoag     POW       734686
engineer    SSgt    James S Lantto     KIA  
radioman    Sgt    Hugh F Goswick     KIA        37284798
gunner(BT)    SSgt    William  Geary     KIA   
gunner(RW)    SSgt    Leonard J Fornaro     KIA       13043065
gunner(LW)    SSgt    John B Hutchinson     KIA  
gunner(tail)    Sgt    Glenn W Witts     KIA        32143277

42-29954
pilot    1Lt    Martin L Shenk
copilot    2Lt    William R Grant         672799
navigator    2Lt    Thomas L Keheley      
bombardier    2Lt    George C Williams     WIA   
engineer    TSgt    Shirley  Goucher        
radioman    TSgt    John D Sinclair     WIA   
gunner(BT)    SSgt   George  Bardsley     WIA  
gunner(RW)    SSgt    Mitchell J LaBuda     WIA   
gunner(LW)    SSgt    Charles W Brinton     WIA    33293733
gunner(tail)    SSgt    James F Sloan     WIA   

42-3226     VP-S?
pilot   1Lt    Inman G Jobe
copilot    FO    James C Hudson         T-326
navigator    2Lt    James H Bradley       
bombardier    2Lt    Lawrence J Potenza       
engineer    Sgt    Kinley W Lindsay     WIA    11050999
radioman    TSgt    unk  Klick       
gunner(BT)    Sgt    Robert J Osborne         34382783
gunner(RW)    Sgt    Anthony F Fox         32393057
gunner(LW)    SSgt    unk  Englett        
gunner(tail)    Sgt    Arthur  Seiber Jr      

42-3223   VP-Q
pilot    1Lt   Charles R Hedin
copilot    FO    unk  Duncan       
navigator    2Lt    Donald F Hamm        
bombardier    2Lt    Frank E Cappel        
engineer    SSgt    Vivian M Thomas       
radioman    TSgt    Robert L Potts       
gunner(BT)    SSgt    Stewart  McDonald         11053404
gunner(RW)    SSgt    Clifford J Marhefke       
gunner(LW)    TSgt    Richard J Hanna         19090861
gunner(tail)    Sgt    Arnold B Lorick     KIA   

42-30015
pilot   1Lt   James H Alexander
copilot    2Lt    William J McDaniel        
navigator    2Lt    Hubert H McDaniel       
bombardier    2Lt    Paul E Tull         735003
engineer    TSgt    Irvin T Johnson       
radioman    SSgt    John K Lane         34207244
gunner(BT)    SSgt    Alphonse J Molis       
gunner(RW)    SSgt    Edward F Metcalf      
gunner(LW)    SSgt    Francis E Owens       
gunner(tail)    SSgt   William C Howell     

42-30024   OQ-A
pilot   1Lt   Robert L Withers
copilot    Capt    Landon C Hendricks         427643
navigator    2Lt    Edward J Rogers Jr        736030
bombardier    1Lt    Leo K English         731041
engineer    Sgt    Louis  Smulowitz       
radioman    TSgt    Irwin  Bohlander       
gunner(BT)    Sgt    Joseph J Kristapovich         31077524
gunner(RW)    SSgt    James J Lintgen         17051231
gunner(LW)    Sgt    Christian  Langolf         16064691
gunner(tail)    SSgt    Elwood  Harris         33119478
observer        William P Duggan         741891
observer    ?Gen    unk  Hunter       

28 June 43
42-29928    VP-W  (abort)
pilot   1Lt   Olaf M Ballinger
copilot    2Lt    John M Carah         737353
navigator    2Lt    Thomas L Keheley       
bombardier    2Lt    Moses J Hoppenstein       
engineer    TSgt    Byron J Gronstal         39242710
radioman    TSgt    Robert L Potts        
gunner(BT)    SSgt    Albert G Wackerman         39103466
gunner(RW)    SSgt    Clifford J Marhefke        
gunner(LW)    SSgt    Harry W Bauscher Jr        35661197
gunner(tail)    Sgt    Arthur  Seiber Jr       

29 June 43
42-3033    VP-U
pilot    1Lt   Olaf M Ballinger
copilot    2Lt    John M Carah         737353
navigator    2Lt    Donald F Hamm        
bombardier    2Lt    Frank E Cappel      
engineer    TSgt    Byron J Gronstal         39242710
radioman    TSgt    Robert L Potts        
gunner(BT)    SSgt    Albert G Wackerman         39103466
gunner(RW)    SSgt    Clifford J Marhefke        
gunner(LW)    SSgt    Harry W Bauscher Jr        35661197
gunner(tail)    SSgt    Francis E Owens        

I hope this is what you are looking for.  Any help you can give me on the missing crew lists would be appreciated but not required.
Thanks.

Many, many thanks for the loading information concerning my father, 2nd Lt. John M. Carah.  It answers a number of my questions, but it opens others. 
 
My father is credited with participation in the 22 June 1943 Antwerp mission, but it appears he did not fly with the 533rd BS based on your info.  Perhaps he flew as a substitute in one of the other squadrons that day.
 
However, there is a clue in my father's memoirs which may point to the answer.  In my father's memoirs, written in 1990, he states he flew the Antwerp mission with Col. Nazzaro and Brig. General Frank O'Donnell.  The latter was the then commander of the 8th Fighter Command who flew as an observer with Lt. Withers in 42-30024. 
 
We know from the loading reports that my father was mistaken and he did not fly with Withers or Gen. O'Donnell, but he certainly could have flown with Nazarro.  And where was Nazarro during the raid?
 
According to the 381st BG War Dairy, the Antwerp raid was carried out by the 381st. and 384th. BG.  It also states that some 91st BG aircraft flew in the lead group and that Col. Nazarro was in the lead plane.  It is possible that is where my father was stationed that day.
 
Does anyone have aircraft loading data for the 91st BG that day?  If not, that's another item for me to look up at NARA when I'm there next month.
 
Thanks again for your assistance and I will look up your loading data for the dates you requested when I get to D.C.
 
 

So far I have not been able to identify any of the other aircraft included in the 21 aircraft mentioned in the Group War Diary other than the aircraft lost (Lt Horr) and the 4 533 BS aircraft that I have crew loading lists for.  You mentioned that your father received credit for that date.   Do you have any ability to know whether Lt Ballinger received credit for that date as well?  I show Gen Hunter as flying as observer with Lt Withers.  BGen O'Donnell may have been with Col. Nazzaro.  I have noticed at times when a crew from one squadron flies another squadron's aircraft the loading list may be with the aircraft squadron's records.  You may be looking for a 533 crew flying another squadron aircraft potentially from another group.  The 91st Bomb Group makes no record of its crews flying to Antwerp on this date.  The mission for the 91st this date was the one to Huls, Germany.

Dear LM:
 
Thank you for taking the time to investigate this.  The more I get into this, the more potential errors I see.  For some reason, the 381st BG War Diary identifies the 8th Fighter Command General as O'Donnel when it was in fact Frank Hunter.  The diary goes on to say that the Antwerp raid was a joint mission of the 384th with he 381st, with a few 91st. BG planes in the lead.
 
The same passage seems to state that Col. Nazarro flew in the lead plane which belonged to the 91st. BG.  However, you go to the 91st BG War Diary and they say nothing about Antwerp--they had a mission in Germany that day as you point out. 
 
So far I have not found any War diary for the 384th BG.  I'm wondering if the reference to the 91st BG was in error and it was some other group in the lead.  I would guess that since this was the 381st's maiden mission they included some experienced pilots form other bomb groups to steady everyone's nerves.  But, as you suggest, its possible the 91st. simply loaned the aircraft and the crew was all 381st. personnel.  Where that loading list would be is problematic. 
 
In regards to Ballinger, his first combat mission was on June 28 which he ultimately aborted, so my father flew with someone else on the 22nd.  I am sure my father flew on the 22nd. since 1. he said he did and 2. his Officer's Qualification Card (Form 66-1) shows the mission plus the Tricqueville and LeMans raids. 
 
It looks like I've got some more digging to do.  Thanks again for your help.

Warren,
             Here is a little more on the 22 Jun 43 mission to Antwerp.
                No. Dispatched   No. Effective   Losses(MIA)  Losses(E) 
381 BG            22                        19                  2                  1
384 BG            20                        20                  2                  0

I don't remember the name of the source where I obtained the data.  I do have the pilot names for the 20 384 BG aircraft and the names of the crews for the 2 lost.  I firmly believe that 381st crews flew some 91st BG aircraft and that your father probably was on one of these aircraft.  I generally find as I do research that statements like those made in the Group War Diary have some validity when viewed from a slightly different perspective. Do you know of any contacts that might have forms listing the missions flown by other members of the 381st?  That might shed additional light.

LM:
 
I contacted some persons familiar with the 384th and they do not have anything relating to either Nazzaro, my father or any 381st person on one of their aircraft during the Antwerp raid.  I am now chasing the lead with a former 91st BG member who has a bank of data and who may be able to tell me more about the roll of the 91st. BG in the Antwerp raid.  Thanks again for your support--the mystery will eventually be resolved.
 
 

LuckyM here is my info;
 
22-6-1943,time,09.30,crashed;Hoek near Terneuzen,Holland,B-17F,42-30016,381 BG/532 BS,1/Lt.E.R.Horr
22-6-1943,time,09.15,crashed;Oosterschelde/2 miles E.Krabbendijke,B-17F,42-30021,381 BG/533 BS
                  1/Lt.J.J.Martin
30-7-1943,time;10.45,crashed;Apeldoorn,Holland,B-17F,42-3100,381 BG/532 BS,Maj.R.F.Post
19-8-1943,time,19.30,crashed;Rozenburg,Holland,B-17F,42-3101,381 BG/535 BS,1/Lt.O.H.Koenig
5-11-1943,time,14.00,crashed;Klundert,Holland,B-17F,42-30852,381 BG/535 BS,1/Lt.D.K.Hopp
 
From the craslog SGLO The Netherlands
 
regards Jaap

Lucky M,
 
Just when I thought I had a handle on the Antwerp raid of 22 June 1943, I found in the ArmyAirForces.com archives an old note to Scott Burris from my father, John Carah, dated 6 Oct 2000 regarding the Antwerp raid:
 
 "Scott-this is a public answer to your message re the Tragedy at Ridgewell RAF Station on 23 June 1943. Yes--I was there and just the day before I had flown in this B-17F that blew up and killed 23 airmen.This was on our Group's first mission to Antwerp,Belgium.. Lt. Withers was the pilot--Col Nazzaro, our Group commander was in the right seat, and B/Gen Hunter, Commander of the 8th Air Force Fighter command was standing near the pilots. I was in the tail gunners position as Gen Hunter wanted a pilot in the tail for observation of his P-47s-also their first mission. We landed safely and the next moring as the planes were being loaded for that days mission-a terrific explosion occured on the flight line. Apparently as the bombs were being loaded, an armed bomb was dropped and the resultant explosion killed the 23 airmen and destroyed or rendered unflyable three B-17s. A good friend, Navigator Paul Tull was in an adjoining B-17 and was killed instantly when a piece of metal from the exploding B-17 pierced his head. This most certainly was a horrible introduction to war--and not in the air. WHen I made my way to my plane a saw bits and pieces of human bodies scattered all around..Not a pretty sight..I remember seeing 5 toes--but, no foot. Whether this made a difference on how bombs were loaded--I do not know--for a few days later I was shot down on 4 July 1943. John USAF Ret. "
 
So it appears we have a new wrinkle on the loading list question.  I had heard before it was common for pilots to sit in the TG position later in the war to observe formation discipline and bombing accuracy, but I did not know they also did this to guage fighter effectiveness.
 
What had been frustrating is that while my father got official credit for the Antwerp mission, I could never figure out who he was flying with--now I know.  I don't know what to make of the official loading list for Wither's aircraft that you posted earlier.  Either they changed without being corrected or they did not include a full listing of all persons who might be on an aircraft.
 
Regards,
 
Warren

Warren,
 
Rest assured that there were men who were not included on the loading lists. There was an 11th man, a nose gunner, left off the loading list when my brother's plane went down. He had never flown with my brother before and, had it not been along, my brother more than likely would have survived. The navigator said that he saw him helping the man out of the nose turret. Neither of them made it out of the plane.
 
Vic

From working with loading lists of the 388th BG, I can also tell you that just because a man is listed as flying in a particular position, it doesn't mean it was so. Especially if a guy was a late scratch, and the pilot wasn't familiar with the replacement.
 
In addition, here's a little nugget I found: the man I've researched was a pilot, KIA in 1944. In the 388th (at least when he was flying), the pilots filled out their own loading lists. This gentleman's middle initial was "J". However, when he printed the "J", he didn't cross it. Consequently, he was initially listed as W. "V." Osterkamp, not W. "J." in the group reports. By the time the MACR was filed, the mistake was corrected. However, the mistake from the original report lived on to make its way into the book "The 388th at War".
 
Its little stuff like the above that can make research so interesting.

Hi Vic,
 
I guess the lesson here is always take a second look when Army paperwork is involved.  As you know, I am investigating the death of several airmen, including S/Sgt. Francis Owens of the 381st.,  during an evasion over the Pyrenees Mountians in the Fall of 1943.  I filed a FOIA request for one of the IDPF files and it contained a rather complete investigation, including forensic anthropologist reports, dental records--the works.  So I am a bit surprised when the Quartermaster Corp set the date of the tragedy in November, 1943 when their own data and witness testimony clearly points to October, 1943.  The result is three grave markers in Belgium, South Carolina and New Jersey with the wrong death date.
 
Anyways, I am glad that I have solved one of the unknown items in my father's WW-II career with the 381st.  I sure wish I had asked a lot more when he was still living.
 
Regards,

Hello-
 
I believe that I have an accurate loading list for the Berkley crew on 1 Aug 1944. My grandfather, Thomas J. Hammer was a member of that crew.
Here is the list:
2nd Lt.  John "Pappy" Berkley - pilot ***
2nd Lt.  Robert W. Baker - Pos. co-pilot - Serial O-820935 ***
2nd Lt.  Anthony Stancampiano - Pos. NG - Serial O-719168***
S/Sgt  Thomas J. Hammer - Pos. TT/ENG - Serial 35799048***
S/Sgt. Hector G. Tencich - Pos. TT/ENG - Serial 32?.697***
Sgt. James P. Morgan - Pos. WG - Serial 17076733***
Sgt. Frank K. Gunderson - Pos. WG - Serial 39137654***
Sgt. Kenneth D. Lingbloom - Pos. WG - Serial 39??.79***
Sgt. William Goudeket - Pos. BTG - Serial 32??.56***
Also listed was a 2nd Lt August F. Kaemper in July 1944 when the crew formed, but he did not turn up in my search of Berkley's crew
One more thing, in Oct. 1944, Harry L. Delaplane - Pos. B - Serial O-769263 was listed as part of Berkley's crew, both Delaplane and Frank K. Gunderson (listed above when he joined the crew in July) were killed when the right engine to their plane caught on fire and they jumped out of the plane into the North Sea (just an interesting side note.)
Anyway, I placed 3 asterisks next to the names of the crew that loaded on 1 Aug 1944.  Hope this helps!
 
Jeanie Greenwell
 

I have been researching what missions my uncle, Emery M Horne, flew.  The info I 've been able to collect from the 533rd War Diaries is as follows:
 
Sep 4, 1943: A new crew was assigned: 2nd  Lts  Robert R. Parsons, John H. Kels, Charles H. Smith, Thomas J. Cunningham; T/Sgt Walter F. Milligan, S/Sgts Vincent A. Paterno, Vito J. Gerulo, Elburn L Greene, James  J. Embardo, Emery E. Horne.
 
Sep 16, 1943: Six ships of the 533rd took part in an attack on harbor installations at Nantes, France, flown by: Lts Shenk, Jobe, Cahow, Gleichauf, McDaniel and Carqueville. All returned safely, although the latter had three crewmen wounded in action: T/Sgt Walter F. Milligan (ETTG), S/Sgt Vincent A. Paterno (LWG), S/Sgt Emery Horne, (TG).
 
Oct 9, 1943:  Another of our crews is missing in action, flying with the 535th: 1st Lt Herbert Carqueville, 2nd Lts Robert R. Parsons, Charles H. Smith, Thomas J. Cunningham; T/Sgts John B. Kapustka, Vito J. Gerulo, S/Sgts James J. Embardo, Anthony F. Fox, Elburn L. Greene, Emery M. Horne.
 
Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

Here are the mission that I have for Emery Horne.  Please be aware that I may not have all of his missions.
date        serial#        a/c code         pilot                        Horne position
9/15/43  42-29846       GD-          Carqueville                   gunner(tail)
9/16/43  42-3048         VP-U        Carqueville                   gunner(tail)
9/23/43  42-29803       VP-P         Carqueville                   gunner(tail)  (abort)
10/2/43  42-29803       VP-P         Carqueville                   gunner(tail) 
10/4/43  42-29803       VP-P         Carqueville                   gunner(tail)  (abort)
10/8/43  42-29803       VP-P         Carqueville                   gunner(tail) 
10/9/43  42-3180         MS-Y         Carqueville                   gunner(tail)  DNR
 
 

Rick:
B - 17# 42 - 3180 MS  " Forget Me Not II "
Crashed North Sea 10/9/43
Pilot - Lt. Herbert Carqueville
9 KIA  1 POW   MACR # 888
Photos of # 42 - 3180:
Vintage Aircraft Nose Art - Gary Valant  Page 35
National Air and Space Museum Library:
Photo # B65820AC    Photo # B65887AC
Listed on Wall of Missing  Cambridge American Cemetery
For His MIA information go to www.abmc.gov
Click on WW II - follow instructions
Mike

Thanks a lot for the info!!!!
 
Where can I find what the a/c codes mean?

VE   532nd squadron
VP   533rd squadron
GD   534th squadron
MS   535th squadron

Thanks ---- If I would have done a little more research I could have figured it out on my own.

Thanks
 
I am in the process of ordering the MACR.

Carqueville went down on the Anklam raid on 9 Oct.  I have not seen the MACR, but I do have the original route map from MACR 887 which was for the loss of Robert Withers' aircraft on the same raid.  The original is hard to read so I have recreated it in a Mapquest map.  The red dot signifies where Withers went down--in the middle of nowhere over the North Sea.  Since there was a POW survivor in the Carqueville crew, I would imagine they were closer to Denmark when they went down.
 
John Comer in his book "Combat Crew," was once in the Carqueville crew and there is a photo and other materials in the book that would be of interest to Rick.

Thanks a lot --- any and all info is greatly appreciated.
 
I started reading John Comer's book "Combat Crew" a couple days ago. Carqueville was the original pilot that trained with Comer. When they reached England he became the copilot, replaced by Paul Gleichauf, because he didn't have high altitude formation experience. I believe that my Uncle was a member when Carqueville was given his own crew.
 
I have seen various references list Anthony F. Fox as POW and others as KIA. Haven't done enough research to determine which is true.

It appears that your father was on the same ship as my grandfather, Sgt. Christian Langolf, for the Antwerp raid.  All I have been able to glean from the records is that this was the only mission my grandfather flew on before the unfortunate Ridgewell explosion, as he was in the 42-30024 ship when it blew up. 
 
I'm sure your father and my grandfather at one point exchanged pleasantries of some sort.  One would certainly think so.

It appears that your father was on the same ship as my grandfather, Sgt. Christian Langolf, for the Antwerp raid.  All I have been able to glean from the records is that this was the only mission my grandfather flew on before the unfortunate Ridgewell explosion, as he was in the 42-30024 ship when it blew up. 
 
I'm sure your father and my grandfather at one point exchanged pleasantries of some sort.  One would certainly think so.

MY NAME IS NORMAN SOBEL IN KINGSPORT TENNESSEE WHERE A CAPTAIN STILL ALIVE OF  A  BOMBER B-17 WHO WAS SHOT DOWN
DURING A RAID ON THE BALL BEARING RAID  HIS NAME IS HUBERT GILLIAM  AT 92 HE IS AS ALIVE AS CAN BE.......I JUST LEARNED OF
HIS FLIGHT WHICH HE GOT SHOT DOWN AND WAS WITH 25 PLANES OF WHICH MY UNCLE MOSES HOPPENSTEIN PLANE SURVIVED AND 22 GOT SHOT OUT OF THE SHY.....MY UNCLE DIED AFTER THE WAR AND COLONEL GILLIAM IS NOW MY HERO..HE GOT SHOT DOWN TWICE AND GOT UP AGAIN TO BECOME A POW.....
NORMAN SOBEL           KINGSPORT TENNESSEE
[link=mailto:SOBEL!@CHARTER.NET]SOBEL!@CHARTER.NET[/link]