The only thing I have to go on for my brother is from the
Identification Section - Memorial Division - Identification Data
 
His name
Winkler, George L.  15170329 S/Sgt
vitals
KIA Cebu Island 3 April 1945
 
List All Camps in Which Stationed in U.S. Prior To Service Overseas, With Inclusive Dates Of Each
 
Santa Ana, Ca                     19 Nov '42 to 10 Mar '43
King City, CA                        10 Mar '43 to 20 Apr '43
Fresno, CA                           20 Apr '43  to 25 May '43
Amarillo, TX                          25 May '43 to 12 Dec '43
McCarran Field, NV               12 Dec '43 to   2 Feb '44
Columbia Repl. Depot, SC      2 Feb '44 to 15 July '44
 
Where would I find yearbooks, etc for these places and where would I find numbers?
 
Thanks
Mickey

Kevin....
Gee...you got me to thinking again---and it is difficult to keep the dates, locations and training all in the correct timelines. 
I do think it must be AAAF (Aloe) because I have his diploma certificate from there dated 5/23/44 depicting "Pilot"---and, also the notation on his WDAGO form " AAAF Victoria,Texas 5-23-44 Advanced Pilot Training".Also, his commission to 2ndLT was on 5-23-44 So, from what I have learned, I should be looking for his class of 44E from Aloe,and that would be his graduating pilot training, his commssion and his wings,  correct ?
Pre-Flight was at SAACC San Antonio, Primary was at BAS Bonham, Basic was at MAAF Greenville--- all this according to his WDAGO Form.
What I am confused about is that I understand that Aloe was for single engine training...Single engine, wings and commission at Victoria---then to Nebraska which was combat crew processing...then going to San Antonio (Randolph) for B24 qualification or to Kansas  ? ( that is where the sec H 212th BU (CTTS(H) 2AF CFTC fits in )  My question is....how do I find out for sure---Randolph or Kansas for the B24 qualification ? And...I guess I still don't understand going from a single engine to a B-24. Perhaps he was needed for a B24 or maybe he asked for it instead of the single engine.
thanks for your help Kevin---it is very much appreciated.   Christina

Christina,
In your post on Nov. 26 with the title, "RE: Re: Air Force Training Command Class of ?", you listed the following, "...LAAF Lincoln, Nebraska, Sec H 212th B U ( CCTS(H) Gowen Field, Idaho" after commissioning at AAAF Victoria, Texas.

Is the 212th BU listed with Lincoln or with Gowen?  From what I can find, Lincoln AAF was a combat crew training site for B-17s, B-24s, and, late in the war, B-29s.  And I believe you said in some earlier post of yours that your relative flew as a co-pilot.  It is possible that he got his B-24 transition training as a co-pilot right there at Lincoln.  Copilots didn't receive nearly the same level of training as people slated for first pilots, especially if they are trained as replacements.  Whether he asked for it or was assigned wouldn't be known unless you have actual copies of operations or special orders that may have been kept.

Trying to help, but confused by the varying lists of stations that I'm seeing among your different posts...
Kevin Anderson

Kevin...
So sorry if I am confusing you---I am trying to keep it all straight.
The list I am reciting is the order of the list on his WDAGO form. 
Correct---
Miami Beach
University of Florida
SAACC San Antonio
BAS Bonham
MAAF Greenville
AAAF Victoria
LAAF Lincoln
Sec H 212th B U (CCTS(H) 2AF CFTC   ( I am trying to figure out this location)
Gowen Field
Italy
All his training is noted as Pilot until the B24 reference, then he reflects co-pilot--then in April45 it refers to pilot. Confusing to me because it depicts the word Co-pilot, yet the number is 1092 for pilot.
It is noted 1054 Co-pilot and 1092 Pilot and, also noted single engine, B24, and Alt 29 training  but, all the references to his time and sorties in Italy was as a co-pilot on a B-24.
Thanks so much for helping me to decipher all of this.    Christina.

Christina,
And I'm sorry if I am confusing your understanding in my replies.  At least you have a form(s) that is showing your father's training from the very beginning.  For my three uncles, a form of that detail never survived, at least not in showing the entire sequence.  For the one uncle who made a career of the Air Force, he had kept an amazing amount of records and copies of orders, but little showing what happened prior to his commissioning.

Okay, this website, http://www.pwam.org/virtual_museum/trng.htm, suggests that the 212th BU and Gowen Field are one and the same.  It sounds like your father trained as a replacement crew member.  All air cadet graduates of advanced flight pilot training were labeled "pilots".  Lincoln AAF was likely his transition training to a four-engine pilot.  And Gowen appears to be where he got his final replacement crew training.  He likely shipped overseas with a crew, although as replacements (the 456th was already overseas), they didn't necessarily stay together.  Nor does training as a "pilot" mean you are automatically qualified to fly as a first pilot, and time as a co-pilot is probably standard for replacements.

For instance, my uncle the pilot trained as part of a five-member B-25H replacement crew that flew out together to the 13th AAF in the SW Pacific.  Once there, they were all assigned to the same squadron.  But from looking at various operations orders listing crews on missions, the same five rarely flew together.  Roy, although trained as a 2LT pilot, spent half of his time overseas flying assigned on the operations orders as a co-pilot to a more senior and experienced 1LT.  Slowly he worked himself up to being a first pilot.  Even on missions where Roy was listed as a co-pilot on the operations orders, a review of his individual flight record for the same  days shows time almost equally split between that of co-pilot and pilot.  Now that may have been standard procedure in the 13AAF and with B-25s as part of their in-combat training, so I don't know how a group in the MTO/ETO did things.

I hope this helps.

Kevin Anderson

Also Kevin.... the WDAGO form references " Rated pilot 23/may 44 per HQAAFCFTC PO14-21/44 and Flying Status 23/may 44 per HQAAFCFTC PO14-22/44.  commission date : 5/23/44 2nd Lt. AFFS.  Do you know what AFFS is ?
Thanks     Christina

I don't know what AFFS means for sure.  AFS stands for Advanced Flying School according the armyairforces.com dictionary, but it doesn't list AFFS. 

AFFS could also be a clarication of the type of commision your father had.  My uncle had AC (for Air Corps) whenever someone references his 2LT commissioning in orders or documents.

Anyone?  You may have to ask this one over on a different forum to catch the eye of someone who would know.  (We have strayed a ways from the subject heading of this post, so people who know may not be paying attention.)

Kevin Anderson

Kevin.....
The website you directed me to, comes up an "error"... "file not found". I will continue to try to find it. That would indeed be great, as you seem to think that the 212th and Gowen are one and the same. I was hoping that there wasn't a "break" after he went to Gowen because I have been in contact with a tail gunner from the eastern training command that came to Lincoln and Gowen the same time as my Father.  He also remembers his co-pilot as the same last name as my Father (but doesn't recollect his first name)and recalls his copilot as being from somewhere in Pennsylvania, which indeed my father was. Also too.....he thinks the picture of my Father is the same as he remembers of his co-pilot and,  the # of sorties match up as do the actuals campaigns of which he flew and my father flew. Also, interesting is that the tail gunner said that his crew stayed and flew all the flights together....that is why I am so optimistic because the number of sorties flown were the exact same.  Since we had no other way to confirm the "match up", I gave concerted effort to chronicle the dates and locations on my part.  Meanwhile, the tail gunner has been in touch with a family member of his crews bombadier/gunner and is now awaiting a picture of the full crew and aircraft.  So...I am cautiously optimistic that he and my father were crew members together. A good thing that I have finally gotten everything listed in order as to dates and locations.....1.  because I now understand the "lingo"...and that allows me to learn more and and be more focused when I see or read something and, 2.  it puts everything of his WWII service in order so that I can start on his Korean War service.....should be much easier---only one location where I was born in Nagoya.
Oh...the "AFFS " refers to " commission from AFFS" as in  " 2nd Lt. Commission from AFFS ".
Thanks so much for all your time and effort Kevin.  I am fortunate to have had you to help me with so much.    Sincerely,   Christina

Christina,
There is an extra comma at the end of the website address as it got coded into the posting.  Here is the address again on its own line:
http://www.pwam.org/virtual_museum/trng.htm

I'm glad to hear that you have potentially made contact with former crew members.  So far I've gotten as far as talking with the daughter of a crew member that previously flew with my uncle - her dad is dead (1985), as seems to be just about every other crew member I've researched - a hazard of doing research 60 years too late!

Kevin Anderson

Kevin....Thanks---I was able to activate the new link --- I too, read it as the 212th was at Gowen.....seemingly then, he did his "transitional" to the B24 right there at Gowen ! This forum is fabulous---- you can find information on anything if you look hard enough and then have such generous people point you in the right directions. So much of that time period is "lost"to so many---and, yes....60 years later it is not so easy to piece it all together.  For me...I am hoping that all the information I have found and recorded in it's proper location and timeline, will someday be a great "find" for someone who will find it in my family bible where I put everything of "value" for prosperitys sake. 
I am also fortunate that in the 2 short years that I did know my Father before he passed away in 1990 at the age of 67---far too young, but very indicitive as to how he lived his life----" I did it my way" was his favorite saying, he left me about 20 or so tapes he recorded....mainly, I suppose as his way to allow me to "know" of him for all the years he had been gone in my childhood and young adult years.  I will continue to seek the yearbook....Class 44 E Aloe.
Thanks for your help.... and my best to you in finding your information that you seek.      Sincerely,  Christina

Ladies and/or Gentleman,
Would it be possible to ask all of you to breifly check your archives and avenues of information for the name George William Schafer. I believe he went through 1st training at S.A.A.C.C. and ended up finishing at Luke field or williams out in Phoenix circa 1942-43. Any information would be greatful, even a negative would be appreciated to eliminate certain possibilities. Also, Where would one go to learn to be a photographer/gunner? or wear this patch?

[image]local://upfiles/12988/3510104510F94A6B9D070C10393E963E.gif[/image]

[image]local://upfiles/12988/1A4B23915700437698AF9756F01A5426.jpg[/image]

Attached Image(s)

Hi Steve-

A friend was in cadet class 43I at Ryan Field in Arizona.  He graduated from basic training in Santa Ana in March, 1943 and recalls that his was the third class trained at Ryan field (near Tucson).  Does this sound right?  He also recalls that a cadet who was from TX and had been at Santa Ana and then at Ryan was also in the same class but died after collapsing during a running exercise.  I'm looking for any record of that person.  Also looking for the name of the Commander of the Cadets at Ryan - nickname was "Woji"?  First name was "Roman"?
Any help is appreciated - this was certainly a long time ago!
 
Thank you, Susan

On EBAY there is a CD copy of Ryan Field Class 44-H Windsock Yearbook, item number 330128561366.  It might be handy for someone to get, as the images will already be digital and can be emailed around or posted here with little difficulty.  Hope this will help someone.

f11at125


Does anyone have (or know the existance of) a yearbook for the 42-I Class that graduated from Williams Field in Arizona in September of 1942? I'm trying to locate a photograph of Pilot Benjamin Scott Howle and would be grateful for any assistance. Please let me know if you have any leads or information. Thanks![signature]

Sorry Book I have found online is from Brady Texas, 42-I, he is not listed in it, I am seeking Bert Vaut, Flight 3-I Class of 42-I, I have a photo but no location.

http://www.geocities.com/raf_112_sqdn/

visalya


Steve, how large is the Visalia book you have? I've been unsuccessful at finding anything of note regarding this location. Would you know of a place where I could acquire a copy of the book you have? Failing that, would I be able to pay for a copy of it from you? Next Wednesday I'll be moving to a nearby community where I will have more time to research AAF activity at Visalia. Thanks, Larry[signature]

Propwash of 42-I, May 1942,  is available online in PDF for Visalia as are a number of other Class books. They are slow to download average size 6Mb+ but they do download without a progress bar so you may (like I did) think they are not opening. They do open grab a coffee slip outside for a smoke em if ya got em and the return Voila, Class book will be there.

http://aafcollection.info/index.html

Regards
Rob

http://www.geocities.com/raf_112_sqdn/

Rob....interesting you found that old query I made.  I believe I submitted that one back in '04 given that I've relocated since then.

Since relocating I have managed to find several class books for Rankin AAF and Sequoia AAF, scanned and donated copies to the link below. 

A local lady I've been in contact with for 2-years called me Sunday to advise she had finally cleaned out her garage and found eight class books from Rankin AAF.  I will start scanning those soon then provide them to 'aafcollection.info' so others can view them.

In addition, I've made contact with both the Visalia and Tulare City Libraries and they gave me permission to take all the copies of the class books they had available so I could more conveniently scan them.  All are now on the site and available for viewing or downloading.

One last item of interest relative to the class books the lady provided me yesterday....one contains photos of actor Jack Webb when he was a cadet at Rankin AAF.  I've read where he was a student pilot at Rankin, but to date I've found no proof that he did or didn't complete the training.  In any case, I possess positive proof that he was a student, and a ranking student at that.  He was in Class 44-D where he served as Squadron Captain.  He was also a Class Officer serving as Wing Inspector.  This will be the first book I'll scan from this group and should have it completed and fwd to the site owner soon.

Son of Cpl Charles Caldwell, Engineer Crewman, USAAF Crash Boat P-258, Rey Island, Panama (Pacific side)