LockedHot!aaf or B24 related ?

Hello,
Am seeking info on aircraft of VP-61.
serial numbers and matching a/c in squadron numbers.
I know that the "SD" code/number was worn above wing.
was it also worn below ?
Thanks
Alex

THey why not go on a Navy Forum instead of here?

wow,
such a swift and venomous response.
Exactly what I tried to avoid.
So I take the guidance from you Mark that the
B24 Best web forum accessable via this Armyairforces Forum
will only accept requests about WW2 and ONLY Airforce.
Thank you again for your help
Alex
 

Alex...No need to get upset....the Title of these Forums is after all, "Army Air Forces".
 
Either myself, or one of the Moderators would have suggested the same answer as Mark. 
 
A suggestion, if you will....input "Navy VP-61" into your search engine....I suspect that there will be information available.
 
Scott Burris,the owner of these Forums, served in the U.S.Navy, but wanted these Forums to Honor one of his Grandfathers who served in the 381st BG, 8th AF.
 
Jim :-) 

Alex -- I like this website, it's loaded with photos and info;  as they say, nearly anything and everything VP-related:
http://www.vpnavy.org/
 
Here in Jacksonville, I'm across the river from Jax NAS -- the P-3 Orions fly over every day.  Jax NAS will also be the first base to put the new P-8 into service next year.
 
-- Alan
[EDIT:  Not so off-topic, you could say that the B-24 was one of the "forefathers" of the antisub patrol a/c -- the Liberator was used as a long-range antisubmarine patrol aircraft, just as the P-3 and the P2V "Neptune" that Alex is researching.]
 

Hello Allan,
I had seen the website you gave the link for.
Sadly there is very little on the PB4Y-1's that were used by  VP-61.
Nothing anywhere else as far as I could find, only a couple of pictures .
I also now see that I omitted to include "PB4Y-1" in my first post.
So any serial numbers and a/c in squadron number link ups would be great.
Especialy those that were used in Alaska, six a/c I understand. So what of the rest of the Squadron where were they while the six were in Alaska ?
These six were as far as I understand the very last B-24's in military service ?
Thanks again Alan,
Alex

So you ARE "on-topic" after all!  ;)  Alex, I have some sources that I want to check;  some of the B-24 books that I have go into detail on the PBYs.
 
Can you re-title the thread to indicate the PB4Y connection?
 
Mods, even though this concerns Navy aircraft, since it is B-24-related could we continue the discussion here?

Alan...While the PB4Y-1s were B-24s modified for the Navy...this is STILL an Air Force Forum, and, in my opinion, does not diminish the fact that the PB4Y-1s belong in a Navy forum...and not in an Air Force Forum.
 
If the subject was the C-47, there was also a Navy R4D,and, and C-54 equivalent was the Navy R5D....so let us stick strictly to the Air Force subjects.
 
Jim :-)

From Frederick Johnson's book, B-24 Liberator, "the Navy retained Privateers to augment P2V Neptunes in patrol work.  PB4Y-1s continued to serve in Navy photo mapping squadrons well into the 1950s."
...
"In 1949, VP-61 earned a flying safety award for keeping its six PB4Y1-P (P designated Photo) Liberators flying for 5,000hr without an accident. ... For the two years prior to the award, VP-61 extensively mapped Alaska, including 68,000 suqare miles of the slope of Alaska, to be used in oil exploration in Naval Petroleum Reserve Number Four. ... "
 
"During 1948, VP-61 practiced its skills over the Imperial Valley of California before returning to tackle Alaska again. ..."
 
"Records kept by the Navy indicate the last squadron use of twin-tail Liberators was with VP-62, flying P4Y-1P (the B was deleted from nomenclature) aircraft on May 31, 1956."
 
There are more details of the mapping, the cameras carried, and the color schemes of the PBYs.
 
-- Alan

Alex, in most of the Privateer photos that I'm seeing in these books, the squadron two-letter designation was (sometimes) carried on the top of the right wing, often with the three-digit airplane number, and (most times) on the outside of the vertical stabiliser(s). None show any markings underwing except the national insignia under the starboard wing.
 

Alan Blue's book, "The B-24 Liberator," has a photo of two VP-61 Privateers over Alaska on the title pages 2-3.  It appears that the top surfaces of the wings were painted a lighter color, possibly white, from the outboard engines to tips.  They carry the large "SD" squadron code on their tails and a large single-digit plane number on the front fuselage.
 

Alex - You're on the right forum!!
VP-61 Aircraft...
http://www.vpnavy.com/vp61_aircraft.html

Good morning, Gentleman!  I found this particular Thread an "enigma" as it seemed like a possible discussion of "spirit or letter of the law." Here is my take... Having been a member of the B24bestweb.com over the years, I was pleased to see that Scott had incorporated it into our Site and made it a forum. As for the Libs themselves (stats, photos, variants, technology, etc.),  everything and almost anything about the B-24 is (will be) available thru this channel. With that being said, here is the "slippery slope."  Yes, this is an Army Air Forces Site as Jim has pointed out, and there are Navy Sites available as Alan has pointed out, but this is, IMHO,a unique forum dealing with anything about the Liberator. Therefore Alex's initial inquiry is valid, and Mark's terse answer went right to the chase, but I believe it is not so "off-topic for the Site" as one would suspect.  I believe common sense will keep it "on target" and, if  not, a Moderator will. Interestingly, I've noticed that Posts #4 and #5 have indicated examples of both the "letter and the spirit of the law." Many years ago at WR, this pic hung among a collection of FO pix, but was not identified with a caption, "just another pic of a Lib."  Although, I don't have the S/N, it turned out to be a "well-weathered" PB4Y-1. Here is the link to this pic from the "Heavy and Very-Heavy Sub-forum:  http://forum.armyairforces.com/tm.aspx?m=167883&high=PB4Y-2 .  

AlanStarcher
So you ARE "on-topic" after all!  ;)  Alex, I have some sources that I want to check;  some of the B-24 books that I have go into detail on the PBYs.
Can you re-title the thread to indicate the PB4Y connection?

Mods, even though this concerns Navy aircraft, since it is B-24-related could we continue the discussion here?

Alan,  I see no problem with queries that might arise here (my highlight in your post), and, since there are already 3 Moderators involved, I believe you are "in good hands."  BTW, I did a "search" just on the "Heavy and Very Heavy Bombers" sub-forum using the keyword: PB4Y. I came up with lots of info including the "link" about my "unidentified pic" in post #13.  As an aside, back in the 1980s the Plant Manager of our GM WR plant (former FO bomber plant) had acquired a Navy PB4Y-2 "fire suppression" Privateer with the "dream" of converting it to a "B-24" static display at the historic plant. Here is the link (2007) to that "dream." http://forum.armyairforces.com/tm.aspx?m=127857&high=PB4Y-2

I guess I have been corrected by the moderator.  Maybe Scott should change the name of the forum.  It seems that nothing is off-topic.

note to Mark:

Anything "B-24" (Related!!) is AOK here...
Thanks for your concern!!

And there's the rub, eh?  Dan, in the "old" BestB24Web forum, you had a specific section for PBYs, correct?  Would you find it too restrictive to confine our converstions to only ArmyAir Force subjects?  Or did I open a can of worms?  Not sure if you had discussed this fully with the staff here before deciding to make the move, or if this is one of those unforeseen situations.  (And I know this sidebar is off-topic -- oh, well, "rules were made to be broken."  Except that rule.)
 
-- Alan

Alex -- one more for the road.  Those two photos of VP-61 Privateers over Alaska on the vpnavy.org site are very similar to the title page shot in Allan Blue's book -- you can see the light-colored wingtips.
[EDIT]  The next-to-last photo near the bottom, shows a "SD" Liberator with the plane number and squadron code on the top of the starboard wing, although the wingtips are not painted the lighter color as in the preceding photos. 
 
-- Alan

Hello,
Thank you Daniel, Alan and Steven,
Your help has been much apreciated .
When I started this thread i did not forsee such a turmoil.
Hence the original title which I have now changed.
There are only three sites that I know of that also deal with US "Navy"
aviationarchaeology.com; which has a section on the Navy B24's all are said to be listed.
Accident reports .com; and the vp navy.com.
Thanks for the details given and links to older threads, I will look at them .
From what I have gleaned -
VD-5 became VPP-1 which in turn became VPB-61 then VP-61 from September 48. But that month may be wrong as the photo caption in "B24 Liberator in action" No:80 gives photo by Robert L. Lawson as alaska on 14th July 48.
Colours are also said to be Navy sea-blue ans Special Artic Red markings on the tail surfaces and outer wing panels. Squadron markings are in white on outside of fins and at least the uper right outer wing .
The two Squadron Signal books on Navy Air Colors show other Navy a/c of the 1945-48 period to have Squadron markings under the left wing. hence my querry on these PB4Y-1P's.
Again many thanks
Alex

I do not mean this to be argumentative, but, if we are to include ALL B-24s, to include the Navy PB4Y-1s, ...should we  NOT also, include the other aircraft that were lend-leased to the Brits AND Russia ? ? ?   Bombers,to include the RAF B-17s, the P-39s given to the Russians, and all other aircraft to foreign governments ?
 
Where are the limits...where does it start and where does it end...and what aircraft and governments are included and which are excluded ?
 
This why I objected to including the Navy PB-4Y-1s.
 
Perhaps the need exists for a solid course of action to be enacted, and guidelines set forth. ?
 
Just questions, that I feel need to answered.  :-)
 
I am not trying to put the "Bite" on Scott Burris, the founder of this website, but, perhaps, a consensus of opinion, needs to be discussed among contributing members of these Forums,as to what needs to be included and what is excluded.
 
Jim :-)

Although I may not know about the different aspects of ALL? the B-24 variants, my expertise lies in telling people where to go!!
(For more info, of course...)

Jim,
Hear,hear, No matter how you look at the post/replys etc, it smacks of the US NAVY, not the USAAF. It has confused the hell out of a lot of us. It dont belong here.
Like I posted here a few times before, this forum is Scott,s baby and he can and will set the ground rules. If I may add, I dont think a vote will sway him one iota.
Bottom line, Scott is my "Captain" in this forum, and I will abide by his rules, whether I like it or not.   
As to Danny's retort to you, his expertice in telling people where to go, mayhaps he should read the ground rules set forth by Scott, "be nice to others". Then again I've been told a few times where to go and I went there, but was sent back to get the sender.  

Good morning, John, and good reply!  You are correct that Scott has done an excellent job in launching this Site and steering it on a true course, which makes the addition of this Forum all that much more interesting.  However, I'm thinking you "may" have misinterrpreted Dan's comment in post #21 when you said: "As to Danny's retort to you, his expertice in telling people where to go, mayhaps he should read the ground rules set forth by Scott, "be nice to others". Then again I've been told a few times where to go and I went there, but was sent back to get the sender."  I took it to mean "where to go to FIND more information" as he stated in the parentheses. I've found his research, leads and links over the years in respect to the Liberator (along with his qualified research staff) to be outstanding.  Hope this makes sense....

John...Perhaps I was, and am, in error as to my approach to this subject....in addition to the Navy PB4Y-1s, the Navy also operated B-17s as PB-1Ws as AN/APS-20 search radar, but not until 1945.
 
Perhaps a sub division within the B-24 website could be adapted, and the same could be applied to other aircraft such as the Navy B-17s,....Or a seperate Forum established as a location to input such variations.
 
I still think... (again my own personal opinon)...the main subject is the Army Air Forces...and possibly such a seperate Forum would satisfy the seperation of the Army Air Force from all other divisions, either as a seperate Forum or a sub division within each B-17 or B-24 or other aircraft that were modified from their original intent.
 
Jim :-)

Steven,
Dan,s  "where to go" is in the "eye" of the beholder. If what you say is true, It behooved him to be more explicite as to what he was alluding to,  AMEN 

Thanks for explaining, Steven!

On the BBW "Home Page", just click on the "Navy PB4Y" (variant link) and see what you get...
http://b24bestweb.com/Snap 2012-07-..t 06.54

My 2 cents ... Scott added a sub-forum to the website, Daniel's B-24 Best Web. I'm fairly certain Scott knows, and has known for a long time Daniel provides info on B-24's, and all variants thereof. See Dan's post above with screenshot ...
 It would seem to me, that in this sub-forum,  anything related to variants, various users of them, and so on are fair questions.
 Most forums have a sub-forum  " place " where members can post 'off-topic' stuff, sort of like the Canteen here .... although, even there, it seems anything off topic is frowned on by some. This sub-forum should be no different ... anything Dan has expertise in should be allowed here. I can almost guarantee that the AAF flavor of the rest of ArmyAirForcesDotCom won't suffer.
 If I don't want to take a chance on being offended by a PB4Y inquiry, I can always just not click on posts that show to be in this sub-forum.

Thanks for trying to make "Sense" out of this, Richard!
(some people's kids!!)

Okay.  I guess some adult supervision is required here.
 
The rules are as follows. 
 
This is the B-24 Best Web forum hosted here at armyairforces.com.  Talk about B-24s until you are blue in the face.  If some Naval bleed over occurs I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.
 
Daniel obviously has a good feel for what constitutes the subject matter that he wants to cover.
 
The looseness of the B24bestweb forum here is superseded by only a few hard and fast rules.
 
No politics.
No selling.
No abuse of other forum members.
No spam.
 
That is all.
 
Locking the thread.  No further discussion is required.