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Deciding who got to be a pilot or co-pilot

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ahronshapiro
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Deciding who got to be a pilot or co-pilot

Hello,
This is a question that has been on my mind for some time.
At what stage in training was it decided which bomber pilots would become First Pilots and which would become Co-pilots? And what factored into the decision? Was a co-pilot disappointed with being given that designation?
I do realize that in the course of combat a co-pilot would often end his tour as a First Pilot but it might take him many missions to get to that point.
Elsewhere in this forum, B-17 pilot Jules Horowitz has said that he felt a co-pilot had the most frightening job on the plane in terms of feeling helpless. 
Were there any pilots who preferred to become co-pilots?
I'd love to hear from actual WWII vets on this subject, and Jules Horowitz in particular, if he wouldn't mind sharing his knowledge with us.
Thanks.

Ahron Shapiro, nephew of 2nd Lt Ezra Shapiro, co-pilot with the 305th Bomb Group, 364th Squadron. KIA 29 May 1944 on his 9th mission. 

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    jhor9
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    Re:Deciding who got to be a pilot or co-pilot (permalink)
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    ahronshapiro

    Hello,
    This is a question that has been on my mind for some time.
    At what stage in training was it decided which bomber pilots would become First Pilots and which would become Co-pilots? And what factored into the decision? Was a co-pilot disappointed with being given that designation?
    I do realize that in the course of combat a co-pilot would often end his tour as a First Pilot but it might take him many missions to get to that point.
    Elsewhere in this forum, B-17 pilot Jules Horowitz has said that he felt a co-pilot had the most frightening job on the plane in terms of feeling helpless. 
    Were there any pilots who preferred to become co-pilots?
    I'd love to hear from actual WWII vets on this subject, and Jules Horowitz in particular, if he wouldn't mind sharing his knowledge with us.
    In my group it made much  sense because the 60-70 hours of trqansiton a pilot learned emergency procedures etc. whereas copilots had their 1st ride in a b17  ater bing assigned to one.My coplot got a new crew with it's 1st pilot as his coplot. I got a new copilot of an incoming new crew.    CLEAR AS MUD---YES 
     

    Thanks.

    1.I can't speak for 1944-45.From my cadet passage it depended on the needs of the service  when a cadet received his wings. I was in Class42K( Dec).Most of my class went to Sebring and became 1st pilots, then again class42J ( Nov) and class43A (jan) a great  many were assigned as copilots..My co pilot  class43a flew with mw for approx 25 mission when he flew left seat and then got his own crew. I understand that later on many pilots flew their whole touras copilots 
    .

    Jules Horowitz, B-17 pilot, 99th BG, 50 missions/sorties
    My tour was from 7/19/43-2/13/44
    ahronshapiro
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    Re:Deciding who got to be a pilot or co-pilot (permalink)
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    Thanks, Jules.
    That's really helpful information.
    All the best!

    Ahron Shapiro, nephew of 2nd Lt Ezra Shapiro, co-pilot with the 305th Bomb Group, 364th Squadron. KIA 29 May 1944 on his 9th mission. 
    B24fan
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    Re:Deciding who got to be a pilot or co-pilot (permalink)
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    My father had originally trained as a aircraft mechanic working on fuel and oil cell cobmat repair. During that time the Army Air Corps had a regulation that only college graduates could become pilots.  By 1943 they realized that they were going to have serious problems manning all the medium and heavy bombers with only college graduates as pilots.  They quickly instigated a program they called "Flying Sergeants" (After the British program) where they would accept enlisted personel to try for pilot training.  My father applied and was accepted.  The plan to keep their rank as sergant was discarded soon after the program started and it was decided that if you passed pilot training, you were given the rank as a 2nd lieutenant like everyone else.  However it was understood that you would not become a command pilot unless you showed exceptional ability.  My dad never did become a command pilot, but his command pilot always let him fly and command half the mission and was not one of  the "wheels up, flaps up and shut up." command pilots that used their co-pilots to watch engine gauges and little else.

    Son of 1st Lt. Richard N. Coyle (1922-1982)
    739th bombardment Squadron, 454th (HBG), 304th Bomb Wing, 15th Air Force.  co-pilot with Ed Green (command pilot)
    San Giovanni Airfield, Cerignola, Italy - Jan 44 until Jul 44
    Dwilma01
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    Re:Deciding who got to be a pilot or co-pilot (permalink)
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    How a student pilot was rated by his instructors factored into assignments, but as posted above, the whims and needs of the service counted more. Dad was walked over to a B-24 one snowy morning in Detroit in '43 and told to get into the right seat. On his fourth ferry mission he was in the left seat. If his subsequent career (instructor pilot in the C-46 and later Master Army Aviator) was any indication he was a competent pilot. He often complained about the quality of co-pilots in '44 and '45 in the CBI. Then again being a pilot didn't always translated to promotion. In '45, Dad was the ranking second lieutenant in the CBI. 

    David Wilma
    Son of 1LT Francis R. "Dick" Wilma (1920-2005)
    Air Transport Command, Chabua, India, '44 - '45
    www.DavidWilma.com
    jhor9
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    Re:Deciding who got to be a pilot or co-pilot (permalink)
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    I enlisted the day aafter Pearl Harbor.Prior to that 2 yrs of college was reqired. After Dec 7th'41 the college requirement was dropped, and instead an IQ test was given. In order to be eligable for pilot training a score of 130 was necessary passs/fail. No score waas given but  if under  130, college or not, no pilot training

    Jules Horowitz, B-17 pilot, 99th BG, 50 missions/sorties
    My tour was from 7/19/43-2/13/44
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