Here the solution for the wrong Statements on various Internet sides, many books, Accident Reports, MACR’s (Missing Air Crew Reports) about B-17 - Serial Nr. 42-5171 called”Unmentionable”!
Pilot Lt. Warren George and his crew members was awarded with greatest likely falsely /mistakenly crash location: Wiesens near Aurich in Germany
, because in the Missing Air Crew Report, MACR15444 were added two aircraft identification documents from the German Air Base Jever “Test Department” page no. 110618 and 110619.
The Air Base Jever “Test Department” was responsible for the salvage/recovery of the airplane which crashed in Wiesens.
This Test Department has identified in these two sides unambiguously the 42-29631.
(But Warren George and his crew have never flown by this B-17 Serial No.!)
Here an extract from the identification documents German Air Base Jever: I. General Data 1.) Markings: (USA-star) BO.
5.) Factory number: AF 42 - 29631 6.) Admittance date: 16 Jan. 1943 7.) Downed by fighter at Wiesens (Ostfriesland) 13.40h II.Technical Data 5.) Crew: 10 men captured (3 of them wounded)
- (BO - Identify Code of 368rd bomb squadron.)
These identification documents of the Air Base Jever were added the remaining documents of the MACR15444 in which were listening all the names of crew members of pilot Lt. Warren George. This was the mistake which later to the discrepancies has led.
((Absolutely became (evidently in the documents of the IDPF “Individual Deceased Personnel File”) also just that's why / misunderstanding later then the parents from in accordance with Warren George by the US Army 1946 informed about the death location Wiesens to here soon Warren George)
Really the A/C identification documents of the Air Base Jever would have had to be added to the MACR 15524 !!! . In this MACR are listened the crew members by B-17
Serial No. 42-29631.
This crew is according in the documents of 306 BG (mission loading lists, take off lists etc.)
Lt. Fred Gillogly has flown the 42-29631 really!
Gillogly, Whipple, Brown, Edward, Fehr, to all, Warren and Dolinka were captured in Holtrop.
Wiesens – Holtrop 1.5 miles
Baker was captured in Aurich and Jones in Wiesens.
Wiesens – Aurich 4 miles
Whipple and Fehr were delivered on account of her heavy shot injuries first to the hospital to Aurich. After they were able to transport, they were also transferred in naval military hospital Sanderbusch.
Sanderbusch is a city between Varel and Wilhelmshaven. According to German telex aerial region command XI 19.April 1943
Pos.Nr.14.) B-17 crashed Wiesens, identification B before (US-star)
Air Base Jever salvaged.
B (BO) was the Identify-Code of 368BS of 306 BG. Of this relay belonged in accordance with pilot Lt. Fred Gillogly with his crew.
The really actual Coding by his B-17, 42-29631 was BO-A.
The whole crew from in accordance with Lt. Fred Gillogly has survived!
See also here at the documents Air Base Jever:
5.) Crew: 10men captured (3 of them wounded) Crew members of the 42-5171 were not captured in the area of Aurich/Wiesens/Ostfriesland.!
The crew members Malin, Simmons, Parker, Thornton and Randall were captured supposedly in Bruchhausen-Vilsen.
Why in this area I cannot explain myself till this day. May be this men were captured earlier and would bring to this point.
(However, this speaks against the statement of my eyewitness Mr. Willenborg from Schwichteler near crash point which should have seen supposedly 8 parachutes in the sky.)
However, it is sure to 100% that Jack S. Amrey (tail gunner 42-5171) was definitively captured in the surroundings area near Cloppenburg approx. 3 miles by his Boeing B-17 crash place.
(Note in the report on capture of members of enemy air forces, page 110717: bailed out, probably crew member of the aircraft shot down near TENSTEDT on 17th of April, 1943, at 13:15 o'clock)
Over the place of the capture of Bevan and Mc Clenan nothing is known.
Thornton and Randall came on account of her injuries to the reserve military hospital to Hannover.
The pilot Lt. Warren George Jr. died, just as Warren A. Mac Gregor.
Both death crew members were first buried in Vechta. Everything speaks for the fact that B-17 has crashed in Tenstedt and not in Wiesens (Aurich).
Tenstedt-Vechta approx. 10 miles
Wiesens-Tenstedt approx. 56 miles
___________________________________________________________________________IIn Casualty Report U.S. Air Force to MACR 15523 there is listening:
Aircraft: B-17 F 42-29643
Details of loss: the B-17 was severely damaged by flak during the bomb run and was unable to turn
after bombing. Then fighters attacked, when No.2 engine was on fire all of the crew
bailed out. The aircraft crashed near Visbek, 28miles SW of Bremen.
POW: Miller at Schneiderkrug,
Teare, Shaeber, Shelleey, Spiro, Small near Cloppenburg,
Phillips, Wade, Truscott at Ahlhorn
Williams to the hospital at Visbek where one leg had to be amputated.
A German report states that the Germans thought that those captured near Cloppenburg were crew members of a B-17 that crashed near Tenstedt at 13.15h.
In records of German Air Force Command XI is an entry for B-17 near Tenstedt, near Schwege, SE of Cloppenburg at 13.42h. (Remark: The time can’t be right)
In MACR 15523 are first 8 reports related to B-17F 41-24459 of the 91st
BG that crashed on this day near Hassel in Germany. Then follow reports about the B-17F 42-5171.
___________________________________________________________________________ The B-17 which crashed in Tenstedt, could not be identified.
According to German air region command XI, Telex from the 19.April 1943.
(I have also this telex in copy)
Many statements and documents speak for the fact that the tail wing /fin / side rudder of the bomber was strongly damaged. I think that that's why the Serial No. could not to be identified any more. ? Perhaps the tail wing has already got lost before. Maybe the bomber already flew without or damaged tail wing on account of hit by Flak or enemy aircraft over Bremen?.
In particular there is also on the page 62 „Interrogation of Report „(PDF file 306BG.org under archive mission 17. April43) by a hand taken down comment:
„Saw one from our group – think it George-over target just before dropped bombs – FW hit stabilizer – crumpled. Sgt.Donald Bevan the waist gunner writes in his letter to me:
(hit by flak, sheering of tail wings).
Other identification signs like example coding BG/BS (here RD- U) could not be ascertained on account of high / complete damage by 95 % -100 % presumably any more. 42-5171 from in accordance with Warren George could not be salvaged
On account of the area state (no available way to come to wreckage, very marshy area with thick undergrowth) and that's why became according to German telex Nr.3789/4/19.43 from the Air Base Command Vechta to the Air Region Command XI, Hamburg the remaining parts of the bomber were to bring to explosive from a German Air Force shot firer /ammunition air force expert and the remaining parts were sink in the impact crater. Telex No. 3789 (translate in English)
++ ++ A LFVA.No. 334 19.4. 1805 DGZ=
To the Air Region Command XI, I C Hamburg=
Relate to: D. (Air) 2706/07
With reference to: salvage one enemy bomber
1.-17.4.43 at 13.15h.- 2.) Tenstedt,- 3. Dayfighter 4. Boeing B-17F, Date 12.8.42
, engine model Wright Cyclone.- 5. not to ascertain.-6. not to ascertain
7. not yet found.- 8. not yet found.-9. 95 % scrap metal. Airplane is equipped with exhaust gas turbines. Recovery impossible, because the airplane crashed in a very marshy area with thick undergrowth. No ways/streets exist. The remaining parts were to bring to burst from a German air force demolition expert and to sink in the impact crater. .-
= Air Base Command Vechta, Technical Administration.++ Also there is a book of Arnold Wright,
many captured officers of the lost bombers were interned in the prison camp Stalag Luft III. A man called Ewell Mc Cright has spoken with many officers and has taken down their statements which B-17 A/C Serial No. they have flown and where they have bailed out.
All three surviving officers (Parker, Malin, Simmons) from the crew from in accordance with Lt. Warren George confirmed the Serial No. 42-5171.
Pilot Lt. Fred Gillogly who was captured in Holtrop, 4 miles southeast to Aurich confirmed the Serial No. 42-29631.
(I also have these documents in copy)
From this information reveals itself that an airplane change of the occupying is to be excluded on the 17.04.43 completely and the information corresponds in the takeoff lists / mission loading list of 306BG the truth is.
Another unequivocal proof is the drawn pictures of the navigator Andrew van Simmons during his internment time.
Simmons has drawn the Serial Nr. 42-5171 on the tail rudder. Also the code No. U-( star) RD as well as the name "Unmentionable" on the front body part. RD is the coding of 423rd BS.
In accordance with Warren George and his crew belonged to 423 BS.
See mission loading lists 306BG and web on www.306BG.org
(US Newspaper “The Houston” Thursday, April 1943)
Mr. and Mrs. Warren George Sr. received a message from the War Department announcing that Lt. George Jr. was missing since April 17 and telephone conversation between parents developed that the other Texas members of the crew also were missing.
They are Lt. Warren George Jr. of Palestine and others of the Flying Fortress "Unmentionable"
four of them Texans, are reported missing since the great raids over Germany last Saturday in which sixteen American bombers failed to return.
George, a graduate of Palestine High School and a former student at Texas A&M College and SHSTC, has been in action with the Eighth Air Force in Britain for nine months. He is holder of the Distinguished Flying Cross for his performance in a raid on St. Nazaire last fall in which a member of the Crew was killed, others injured. The Flying Fortress on that flight, Chennault's Pappy, was riddled by German fighter planes, but George was erudite with bringing it back safely to an air base in Britain. ___________________________________________________________________________
I have evaluated all documents which I have.
All Missing Air Crew Reports.
I have also evaluated the approximate delivery date of all lost 16,-B-17.
The Unmentionable was a new replacement and go to Thurleigh on 08.Dez. 1942
Interesting the diary of Lt. Warren George.(I have this in copy) He writes on 8.Dec.1942 we have become new airplanes and now I have a new from my own one………..
I believe the most important document was the German telex to German air region command XI, Telex from the 19.April 1943. Interesting is the date of the B-17 which crashed in Tenstedt .The German Air Base Vechta have investigated. 12/8/42!!!! Either one concerns a figure turner and must say really maybe 8/12/42, or it concerns, on this occasion, the actual manufactured date. Both versions are possible. The German Air Base Vechta was responsible to salvaged on 17.April 43 following 3 bombers:
Serial Nr. 41-24459 “Hellsapoppin” crash location-Hassel near Bassum, Germany
Serial Nr. 42-29643 “Moonbeam Queen” crash location-Visbek, Germany
Serial Nr.42-5171 “Unmentionable” crash location-Tenstedt/Schwege, Germany
(The other 13 lost B-17 were salvaged by another German Air Base Command)
However, the B-17 which crashed in Visbek can have fallen down impossibly in Tenstedt, because this Serial No. 42-29643 was a new replacement on the 13th of March, 43 to England.
42-29462 to 42-31031 approx dates of delivery 16 Dec.42 to 2 Sept.43
These can also not be the Hellsapoppin .This airplane has broken in two in the air. About that there are some documents and witness's statements.
No other airplane can have fallen in Tenstedt as the Unmentionable. The 42-5171 was a new replacement assigned 8 Dec 42 to 306 BG in Thurleigh.
42-5050 to 42-5484 approx dates of delivery 31 Aug 42 to 11 Dec 42
__________________________________________________________________________________ Roger Freeman’s book B-17 Flying Fortress Story 42-5171-Del Tulsa 5/10/42, Presque Isle 27/11/42, Assigned 368BS/306BG Thurleigh 1/1/43, MIA Bremen 17/4/43 W/Gillogly, E/A CR? 10POW, MACR 15524 No mention of an aircraft name
(Also a little example for wrong statements, the wrong Serial No. was assigned)
If you doubt then please it says me and put to me all your questions.
Volker Urbansky, Cloppenburg-Germany email@example.com