MACR -NO LUCK

Hello searchers,
 
  I have just heard back from the National Archives in US who claim  there is no MACR for my uncles' plane Swamp Rat C-47 41-38601.I supplied them the frame no etc and no result.Anyone suggest any other aproaches??theoriginal reports listed the frame as 41-38601or 41 -38631.On this day 26th Nov two C-47's were reported lost.when the plane was located the radio plate for Swamp Rat confirmed its identity
 
phillip sydney,australia
 
ps since my last post Ihave made cntact with the Pilots family and exchanged
photos of Earl Lattier.Iam still looking for Paul and Believe
 

Phillip,

You do not provide the date for the loss of 'Swamp Rat', nor the circumstances. I searched and reviewed your posts for S.R. and only noted one with date, for individual lost in Nov 42.

For what little it might be worth......

There was some difference in when Missing Air Crew Reports (MACR) were initiated and completed. However, I have noticed that...

MACRs were not in use prior to May 1943. In a few instances, MACR forms for some of the earlier losses were initiated by administrative personnel after the war.

MACRs were generally not issued when location of loss was known and access for recovery of crew members was relatively quick (within a few hours??). For example, takeoff or landing crashes or crashes/bailouts near friendly forces generally did not generate a MACR.

Hello,

This website tells a very sad tale about this a/c and her crew/passengers. photos of a/c and Nose art also.

[link=http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/c-47/41-38601.html]http://www.pacificwreck...craft/c-47/41-38601.html[/link]

An Australian named P/O. Francis Debenham Milne RAAF is says the only Australian at Arlington N.C. Sect 34 Collective Grave 4754. Grid XY 16.5.
 
Note also the date given as 25th November 1942. The crew, Paul, Milne and Beleive are listed as died 26th while Lattier is listed as died 25th.

Alex

Joe Baughers serials:
41-38601 (c/n 4629) to USAAF Aug 30, 1942 - 5th AF, Australia Oct 03, 1942, operated
as ‘VH-CCY’.  Later to Pacific Wing ATC, cancelled Jun 01, 1946.
 
41-38631 (c/n 4734) to USAAF Sep 20, 1942 - 5th AF, Australia Oct 17, 1942, operated as ‘VH-CCZ’.
Cond Dec 02, 1942 (Shot down).
Terry T.

Joe,
 
 I can assure you the frame was 41-38601 as the radio plate was retrieved in 1986
 
the plane wnent down 26th Nob 1942 A MACR was completedi
have a copy but was not filed??It was shot down taking of from Dobodurra no 2
having dropped men and ant aircraft guns to the area .There plane tired to take off and was chased by Zeros and attacked. The remaining planes on the airfield escaped damage
 
there seems to be another plane but i cant explain the confusion another took off c-47 on same day ...........
 
one respondent claimed that MACRS wernot used till 1943.The plane crashedon Embr i mtside and was lost for 44 years till Dec 1986 when JPAC was alerted to the wreck and 4 bodies
my uncle P?O Milne was interend in Arlington Nov 1988

Alex all crew died November,26th 1942
 
the plane wasnt rediscovered till Dec 1986 and bodies recovered June 1987 by the then JPAC
 
phillip

Hi Phillip,

I hope the search for relatives of the US members of this aircraft is going well.

It may help others to know that Joseph E PAUL was from Montgomery County, Pennsylvania and Arthur BELIEVE was from the Bronx, New York.

It is very sad that it took so long to recover the bodies. The RAAF Searcher party working in the area after the war had details of the loss of this aircraft but did not visit the crash site. The US authorities had not include this aircraft on their list of aircraft of interest; so it was assumed by the RAAF that the bodies had either been recovered or were unrecoverable. RAAF Pilot Officer J.A. Buston had visited the site shortly after the crash and reported that there was no possibility of any survivors (he reported nothing related to remains - recoverable or otherwise).

David.

david,
i have not visited this site for some time and didnt notice your news
id like to know further about what search efforts were mounted for this  plane and others  after the war if Buston visited the site it wasnt ours. swamp rat crashed sout near the embi lakes and to visit the site you would have neeeded a boat..plusit went into the side of the mountain.plus wthere were two planes lost that day SR and 41-38631 in the MACR it said frame no 41-18601 any clues ??
Ihave obtained the IDPC for Believe and Lattie r plus his army file for Believe .They claim they couldnt find Paul's IDPC ....any ideas .In a recent discovery i have learnt the plane was on Dobodurra airstrip
with 4 others under zero attack on the field after delivering anti aircraft gear .They decided to take off and paid the penalty all other planes survived......
the contact i have had with Lattiers family as been wonderful...

Terry T.

Joe Baughers serials:
41-38601 (c/n 4629) to USAAF Aug 30, 1942 - 5th AF, Australia Oct 03, 1942, operated
as ‘VH-CCY’.  Later to Pacific Wing ATC, cancelled Jun 01, 1946.
 
41-38631 (c/n 4734) to USAAF Sep 20, 1942 - 5th AF, Australia Oct 17, 1942, operated as ‘VH-CCZ’.
Cond Dec 02, 1942 (Shot down).
Terry T.

terry 41-38601 was swamp rat and lost nov 1942
41-38678 was the replacement and appeared days after SR was shot down it took the name
Swamp Rat 11 and survived the war ending up in th congo? can you confirm
phillip 

Phillip,

Thank you for the clarification of the crash site. The original notification of the loss received by RAAF indicated that the aircraft P/O Milne was in was shot down by two zeros at 1010 hours 26 Nov 42, 4 miles south of Popondetta. The site visited by P/O Buston was in this area. From what you have said, the crash site of 41-38601 is actually 7-8 miles east of this. The aircraft P/O Buston visited may have been 41-38631 - the bodies of at least three of the four crew of this aircraft have been recovered and buried in Manila.

In a way, I am happy to hear that the 'plane visited by Buston was not 41-38601. I had thought that the failure of RAAF Searchers to visit this site may have delayed recovery of the bodies by 50 years. I have looked back through my notes and cannot find any information supplied to the Searcher unit which indicated a wreck at the location you have identified.

In the RAAF records, your uncle's plane is incorrectly referred to as 41-18601. I assume this is just a repetition of a typo in the original casualty report to the RAAF.

David.

i can emal you a map of the crash site and you can describe which direction you reckon the plane was heading when it crashed rivotax@optusnet.com.au
given the proximity of the Embri lakes a visit was not likely
 
phillip

Phillip,
I just read the story on Pacific Wrecks which also gives the Squadron and Group information.
C-47-DL, USAAF Serial No. 41-38601, 6th TCS, 374thTCG, 5th AF, shot down November 26, 1942, Dobodura, New Guinea.
As has been stated MACR's did not come into use until May 1943 with some earlier losses documented by the unit on a MACR. Obviously the loss of this C-47 was not so documented. I ran into the same issue with a B-26 lost in North Africa in March 1943. However, the Group or Squadron may have a mission or after action report which might have some of the same information as the MACR. Write or e-mail to the U.S. Air Force Historical Research Agency (AFHRA) at Maxwell AFB, Alabama. Give them as much information as possible that you already have, i.e. unit, aircraft type, model number, USAAF serial number, date, crew names, etc. They may have the unit reports on microfilm. I received an after action report written by the 17th Bomb group on the day the B-26 I was researching was lost. It gave a lot of the mission information including info on the loss of the bomber with a crew list. Below is the web address. If that doesn't work just search AFHRA and you will get a link to the website.
 
www.au.af.mil/au/afhra
 
Good luck,
Patrick