LOOKING FOR B-17 44-8237 /MACR14555 94BG

Cully -
Lt. Anderwald on Wall of Missing , Cambridge Cemetery
Go to www.abmc.gov
MACRs are online at www.footnote.com
Check to see if they have # 14555
Mike

Cully,

As Mike stated, the MACR for this accident is posted on Footnote.com.  It is brief and has few details.  Apparently they took off on a training flight and were never seen again.  In the report nobody really knows what happened to them, some wreckage was spotted in the water but apparently no identification was made at that time to verify that the wreckage was in fact 44-8237.  The second page of the MACR is posted below.

Hal

Cully,

Just to close the loop here is the first page of the Missing Air Crew Report which includes the names of the crewmen.  DNB on the left side of the names means Died Non Battle.  Interestingly DNB is scratched out next to Anderwald's name and NO written next to it.  No idea what, if anything that means.  Also note on line 4 the date seems to have been erased and changed, appears to say '31', but on page two it clearly says '30'.

Hal

Cully,
Assigned to the 332nd Squadron on 15 Feb. 1945 by SO #23, AAF Station 468 were:

2nd Lt. Jack E. McComb (P) 0-781369
2nd Lt. Drexel D. Sparks (CP) 0-929471
2nd Lt. Thomas P. Anderwald (N) 0-2073000
F/O Marvin Moran (B) T-127777
Cpl. Richard K. Breting (757) 35234604
Cpl. Dennis A. Wallace (611) 14154167
Cpl. Robert B. Hanson (612) 31294207
Cpl. William E. Smith (748) 42033530
Cpl. Donald E. Lierly (611) 36683624
       On 14 March 1945 the crew was transfered to the 333rd Squadron by SO #41. The only difference in the crew is that the Corporal's had all been promoted to Sergeant's. A/C #44-8237 was a 333rd Squadron PFF aircraft. Although the MACR indicates the 332nd Sq. all other indications are that they were in the 333rd Sq. when they went down. The last couple weeks of May 1945, the 94th crews were undergoing Navigational Training Flights.
       Captain Thomas T. Traynham Jr. who is on the MACR was the Station Flying Control Officer. Odd that no one recieved a radio distress call from the crew. Regards, Marc

       Hal, I have run accross quite a few discrepencies on dates when the A/C took off late at night (22:50 hours). By the time they were reported missing and Sea Search was sent out, it would have been 31 May and the paper work would have been filled out on the 31st. That would be my guess, regards, Marc

Hi Cully

As well as 1st Lt. Anderwald, the four other crewmembers who were also lost on this training mission are all listed on the 'Wall Of The Missing' at the American Military Cemetery at Madingley, near Cambridge. If your friend would like a photo of the crewmembers names on the 'Wall Of The Missing' i can get these the next time i am at the Cemetery. Just let me know.

Regards

Chris.

Hi again,

Cully,

The first page that I posted from the MACR stated that wreckage was seen at 53 degrees 20 minutes North, 00 degrees 55 minutes East.  That is in the North Sea fairly close to the coast of England.  If this link works it should take you to Mapquest with that location marked by a star.  You'll need to use the zoom control on the left side of the map to zoom out and bring the land into the picture.

http://atlas.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searchtype=address&formtype=address&latlongtype=degrees&latdeg=53&latmin=20&latsec=00&longdeg=00&longmin=55&longsec=00

Regarding Capt Traynham, no, he was not on the aircraft.  He was the Flying Control Officer on the ground who gave the clearance for the flight to take off. 

Hal

Hi Cully

I will be happy to get the photographs for you when i next go to the Cemetery at Madingley.

With regards to Aberdeen, this is in Scotland and on the east coast. It would appear from the MACR that the crew were supposed to fly from Bury St. Edmunds, which is where the 94th BG were based with their four Bomb Squadrons, the 331st BS, 332nd BS, 333rd BS and the 410th BS, up to Cromer, which is on the north Norfolk coast and up towards Aberdeen. Then on the return from Aberdeen come down the east coast to Flamborough Head which is on the east Yorkshire coastline. Next it mentions a place called Wills, i think this is a spelling error and could possibly mean Wells, which is Wells-next-the-Sea, which is on the north Norfolk coast, and then back to Bury St. Edmunds.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Chris.

Chris,

Given the relative proximity of both Cromer and Wells to the location where the wreckage was spotted would you guess they were on the outbound leg or the return?  I'm guessing they were outbound based on lack of radio contact but .... ?  Would that area still have been blacked out at night that late in the war?  Thinking they might have gotten spatially disoriented with no points of visual reference and slowly descended right into the sea.  Of course there are a million other possibilities.

Hal

Hi Hal

I would think that because there were no radio messages sent from the aircraft, they were on their way out into the North Sea to begin their flight to Aberdeen, in Scotland. I would also think that whatever the problem was it hit them very quickly as no SOS was sent out. Maybe mist or fog may have played a part and caused a problem? No doubt there were other aircraft in the area, so could a collision have happened? My guess is that the lights may have been on in the towns and villages, but most of these in that area of the north Norfolk coast are only small villages, so there wouldn't have been a great deal of lightning on the actual coast. Cromer, where they were due to fly over is one of the areas where you would have thought there would have been more lights, but at that time of night would they have been on? At the moment there are certainly a lot more questions than answers surrounding this loss.

Regards

Chris.

Chris

Hal,

Hi Cully

You are welcome. When i have the photographs i will send you a 'PM' message with my e-mail address.

It would be interesting to know how many miles off the coast the wreckage was spotted and if it was due to a collision could something have been heard on land?

Regards

Chris.

Hi Chris,

Based on the coordinates given in the MACR and the scale of the Mapquest map the location where the wreckage was spotted is about 50 miles north of Bury St. Edmunds and about 20 miles offshore.  If they were flying at the briefed altitude of 8000 feet a person standing on the shore MIGHT have seen a brief flash if there was an explosion or a mid air collision ... if they were looking in the right direction.  In theory an object at 8000 feet would be visible to a person on the ground for a distance of 120 miles.  If a person heard an explosion it would have been so long after the event, about a minute and a half at 20 miles, that they probably would not have been able to see where it came from.  Also I would guess that given the extent of the search there might have been a notation in the MACR if another aircraft was missing in the same area on the same night.  There have been several other threads regarding aircraft lost on training flights at night over water, always a mystery, always a heartbreak to be unable to find an answer.

Regards,
Hal

Hi Hal

Thanks for those details. I would think that being twenty odd miles out to see and the late time of the flight the chances are probably slim that anybody heard anything? Even if the crash site was located i wouldn't think that there would be much of the aircraft left to give any clues. The 63 years of salt water certainly wouldn't have been good for the wreckage.
 
Regards

Chris.

Chris

According to some of the letters my Grandmother received (Richard Bretings wife), the crew had gotten a new member and he needed some flight time.  A minimal crew was used and they used a flight plan that was being used on earlier flights that day. After the initial report of the aircraft going missing, Airforce and Navy sent search plane and search vessels. Fellow aircraft and crewmen in the squadron kept flying the same flight path for several days afterward, in hopes of finding something.  The authors of those letters were from fellow crewmen within the squadron and they all felt that it was a very strange incident in that Richard Breting was regarded as one of the best radiomen in the squadron, and there was no radio signal.

I found this information about B17 44-8237 on a 34th bomb group website.
 
I states that it was sent to 333sqdn / 94bg. The original name of the plane was "Dallas Dollie" don't know if that was changed when it was handed over.
 
http://valortovictory.tripod.com/b17s/44-8237.htm

Nothing in available 94th records as to what happened. The coordinates in the MACR appear to be the "B" Flights for night training. They were doing "celestial navigation and night transition flights" at that time. Whatever happened was so fast that the radio operator had no time to relay a problem. The most likely causes would be major engine failure,, structural failure or a mid-air collision. Doubful that they did not know their altitude and flew into the ocean. Regards, Marc

To all of you that have looked at and researched since 2008 for information on the B-17-44-8237 from the 94th - I have located a PHOTOGRAPH OF THE ENTIRE CREW FOR THIS AIRCRAFT THAT WAS LOST AT SEA.  In conversation with Steve Zeeckster, a relative of Sgt Breting on this flight, he was able to locate the photo that is attached.  The photo pictures the entire crew with identification of each.  This photo is a great find.......... and worthy to be posted so all veterans and there family can see.  God Bless you Steve for obtaining this photo.
 
Cully