Jules,
 
The over riding factor probably was LUCK, but skillful pilots and flight engineers, backed up by effective ground crews, improved the odds in their plane's favor I'm sure.
 
Perhaps I was naive, but I had complete confidence in our pilot, Sam Goldin, and our flight engineer, Marty Tremble, to handle any emergency.  Then leave it to the B-17 to withstand punishment like a tough boxer who wouldn't give up.

Bob Gilbert
Ball Turret Gunner, Goldin crew
381st Bomb Gp., 533rd Bomb Sq.
US 8th Air Force

Bob and Jules,  Two interesting posts!  I like the analogy that Jules used between skill and luck.  As I had posted many times before, in talking with an 8th AAF Vet who was a mechanic servicing B-24's, he stressed the skill of the crews, "ongoing maintenance," luck and "having available spare parts often times taken from "less fortunate A/C's."  Sort of stoically sums it up!  Best Regards!  Steven

Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

By the time I got over, havimg one's plane was a thing of the past. However, sometimes you could fly one a few times. I was lucky enough to fly one about 8-10 times before I got made lead. I got as friendly as possible with the plane's crew
chief, and of course, with my flight engineer. Sep [Francis Sepesi] and I were friends until his death about 5 years ago.
These relationships contributed mightily to our many hairy, but successful missions.
RHD
PS, the plane in my avatar is the one I flew most

Great post.  I am trying to find out information about my late father-in-law's service.  I know he was a radio operator in the 8th Air Force and part of a B-17 crew.  After his death, we found a photograph of him and his crew standing in front of what appears to be a B-17G (I think a G because it has a chin turret).

Writing on the photo (could be from his mother) states that the photo was taken 8 March 1945 after the plane's 100th mission.  However, it appears that there is no artwork or name on the nose below the pilot's window.  On the back of the crew photo, my father-in-law's mother wrote: "108th mission 22 March 1945; crashed on 25 March 1945"

Any idea of the name of this plane and its history?

Michael,

Any chance you can scan the photo and post it to this thread?  Perhaps one of our members can help you identify it.  Just checked the database on this site for Missing Air Crew Reports and no B-17s are listed as lost on 25 March 1945.  But that list doesn't include aircraft that were lost in friendly territory.  The web site aviationarchaeology.com lists 3 B-17s lost that day, 42-97395, 42-97589, and 44-8605.  If it had flown 108 missions it probably wasn't 44-8605.  It appears that all three crashed near their bases.  Anything else you can tell us about your father-in-law's service?  What was his name?

Hal

FWIW,
   Back to the original question, the 390th BG only had four B-17s that completed 100 or more missions.  All four were G models; two were made by Boeing, two were made by Douglas.  Two were in the 571st BS, two were in the 568th BS.  All had been renamed at least twice.
Regards,
Hugh

Looks like there were many with 100+ missions.
So far more B-17's than B-24's.
Thanks for all the input so far.
Rick

LUCKY PARTNERS


Michael,

Any chance you can scan the photo and post it to this thread?  Perhaps one of our members can help you identify it.  Just checked the database on this site for Missing Air Crew Reports and no B-17s are listed as lost on 25 March 1945.  But that list doesn't include aircraft that were lost in friendly territory.  The web site aviationarchaeology.com lists 3 B-17s lost that day, 42-97395, 42-97589, and 44-8605.  If it had flown 108 missions it probably wasn't 44-8605.  It appears that all three crashed near their bases.  Anything else you can tell us about your father-in-law's service?  What was his name?

Hal

Hal,

My late father-in-law's name was George Samuel Bacon, Jr. ("Sam").  He was born in August 1923, so would have been 21 at the time.  He was from Fort Wayne, IN originally, but just prior to serving he had been a student at the University of Michigan.  I believe he enlisted in 1942, spent some time in the U.S. in an infantry division until a friend of his encouraged him to try the Air Corps.  I believe he deployed to England some time in early 1944.  I don't know his Bomb Group, but I know he was in the 8th Air Force.  The picture is attached.  If you or anyone can assist my wife and I in finding out the name of the plane, his Bomb Group or anyone else in the photo, that would be appreciated.

Mike

Attached Image(s)

Mike,

Great picture.  Do you see the writing in the area on the fuselage above the men's heads, below the two rectangular windows?  That is the data area and it includes the plane's serial number.  I can read the words 'serial number' but I can't make out the actual numbers.  Can you read them?  Or can you take another scan showing just that area, as high resolution as you can?  With that serial number we can identify the Bomb Group the plane was assigned to and learn it's history.  Knowing the Bomb Group will also tell us where to search for more information about your father-in-law's activities during the war.  If we're lucky the Bomb Group will have a web site where you can search for additional information.

Hal

Mike, 

Click on this link to see your father-in-law's enlistment record at the National Archives.  There were only 2 George S. Bacons listed and this was the only one who lived in Indiana.

http://aad.archives.gov/aad/record-detail.jsp?dt=893&mtch=2&cat=WR26&tf=F&sc=24994,24995,24996,24998,24997,24993,24981,24983&bc=sl,fd&txt_24995=bacon+george+s&op_24995=0&nfo_24995=V,24,1900&rpp=10&pg=1&rid=1263221&rlst=817562,1263221

Hal

Marty:
B24bestweb.com
PAPER DOLL B 24J-20-CF 42-99860 98BG

Terry T.

Mike is this him?
from Ancestry.com
Name: George S Bacon Birth Year: 1923 Race: White, citizen (White) Nativity State or Country: New York State: Indiana County or City: Allen   Enlistment Date: 15 Mar 1943 Enlistment State: Illinois Enlistment City: Camp Grant Branch: No branch assignment Branch Code: No branch assignment Grade: Private Grade Code: Private Term of Enlistment: Enlistment for the duration of the War or other emergency, plus six months, subject to the discretion of the President or otherwise according to law Component: Reserves - exclusive of Regular Army Reserve and Officers of the Officers Reserve Corps on active duty under the Thomason Act (Officers and Enlisted Men -- O.R.C. and E.R.C., and Nurses-Reserve Status) Source: Enlisted Reserve or Medical Administrative Corps (MAC) Officer   Education: Grammar school Civil Occupation: Student Codes 0x, 2x, 4x and 6x as pertain to students will be converted, for machine records purposes, to the code number 992. Height: 00 Weight: 112
Terry T.

The 98th had TWO Paper Dolls 42-99860  MIA 12-29-44 and 42-51981 salvaged 8-15-45.

I know the 98th had some B-24s with 100+ missions, but have not tried to ferret them out. Probably some would be: ROWDY II  S/N 41-23656 Ret to ZI
Chug A Lug  S/N 41-11766  Ret to ZI 7-19-44
Silver Queen  S/N 44-40148  Salcaged 7-30-45

herb Harper

Bob Gilbert


Jules,

The over riding factor probably was LUCK, but skillful pilots and flight engineers, backed up by effective ground crews, improved the odds in their plane's favor I'm sure.

Perhaps I was naive, but I had complete confidence in our pilot, Sam Goldin, and our flight engineer, Marty Tremble, to handle any emergency.  Then leave it to the B-17 to withstand punishment like a tough boxer who wouldn't give up.

Bob,
I fully agree with you, 90% luck.
 A little story--- There was a period in the fall of 1943 when our morale was very low because practically all planes, parts and crews were being sent to the 8th AF. Perhaps it was new groups being formed or heavy losses, anyway if not for the great ground crews many planes would have been grounded. I had a plane assigned to me that had one of the engines that used 8 gal of oil an hour, the engines capacity was 40 gal, we went on an average of 8 hours missions, takeoff and target area 4 engines, cruising the engine was feathered I tried to get the engine changed, no luck I got the B.. S.. from the C.O. that if i didn't go ,I would be sorely missed because we were lucky to get 40-50 planes over the target. Prior to going on the missions I had a crew meeting and apprised them of the situation, and if they would fly. To a man their answer was that if I was willing to go they would fly with me, with any other pilot they would not fly in that plane. Of course it was heart warming to know that they had that confidense in me. 

Jules Horowitz, B-17 pilot, 99th BG, 50 missions/sorties
My tour was from 7/19/43-2/13/44

My friend's father flew on the Lady Corrine of the 15th 456 BG out of Italy as the Ball Turret Gunner.  The photo shows 107 missions plus 5 kills.  My friend told me today that the plane completed 172 missions and crash landed on the last one in Russia.
Does anyone know if any planes from the 490th completed 100 or more missions?  My cousin flew several missions on "You're Safe At Home" while it was with the 490th 851st.  I have a later photo of the plane with 95 missions shown on it.  Did this plane make it to 100?  I know it was transferred to another BG.  My cousin was KIA on "Just One More Time" on only its' second mission and his twelth total. 

hello ian,

can you help me, where can i find airplane the juke box jenny
number 42-50606a shot down 12-10-44.

gertruda.

Gertruda,

42-50606 was a 93rd BG plane that went down on a mission to Osnabruck. It took a direct hit on #3 engine while over the target area. Lt Nathanial Whitman was the pilot. MACR 9470. Eight KIA and 2 POWs.

Vic

Vic Walzel, brother of 1st Lt Leland H. Walzel, bombardier with the 93rd Bomb Group, 330th Squadron. KIA 6 March 1944 on his 25th mission.
www.lelandwalzel.150m.com

My Father was assigned to 452d BG, 730th BS and then 729th BS as lead crew from 31 july 1944 - 12 March 1945.  His Flight Engineer told me they never say an enemy A/C the entire time they flew their 32 missions.  Flak was a different story.  Mr. Sittler said they always had good fighter coverage.

Howard Keller (LTC, USA, Ret)

hello terry,
 
how can i find the 328 bomber sq. and a foto from the
jukebox jenny 42-50606a
 
thanks gertruda.

Gertruda,
 
Click on this link to visit the web site of the 93rd Bomb Group.
 
Hal
 
http://www.93rdbombardmentgroup.com/