USS Ranger P-40 deliveries

The USS Ranger (CV 4) made 4 (that I can find) deliveries of P-40s to Africa, ( 33rd, 57th, and 325th FG, 33rd was also delivered by USS Chenango, this is also contadicted by USS Ranger source http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ships/carriers/histories/cv04-ranger/cv04-ranger.html) one which is in question details below. Was the forth group delivered sent to 68 TRS 112nd FS ? Or does someone know if they where replacement pilots? Who led this forth group reputed to be P-40L ?

On October 5, 1942 the 319th squadron was transferred to Hillsgrove, Rhode Island with the squadron strength at 29 officers and 312 enlisted men. On January 2, a few days shy of three months, the group was ordered to proceed by rail to Langley Field, Virginia. The Flight Echelon, consisting of the twenty-seven pilots, left Hillsgrove by air to begin their long journey to Casablanca. Everyone thought it was a permanent change of station. When they arrived new  Curtis P-40F Warhawks were waiting for them. They were told that they were going to be transported by carrier somewhere off the coast of  North Africa where they would then fly their new planes off the carrier to their new base. With only three days training in their new aircraft, on a runway marked off to simulate the takeoff from a flight deck, the crews were ready to go. On January 7, 1943 seventy two new P-40Fs were taxied through town down main street to Norfolk, VA Naval Air Station and hoisted, with the pilot still in the cockpit,  aboard the aircraft carrier  USS Ranger. The squadrons left Norfolk on the January 7, 1943. After eleven days on the cold Atlantic, they were within range of the final destination, Cazes Aerodrome near Casablanca. The planes took off from the carrier squadron by squadron with the 319th last. When the pilots landed at Cazes they stayed there until January 23rd and then were sent to Mediouna. The next day they flew protective cover for President Roosevelt's party and the following day flew to Tafaraoui to join the others who had arrived a few days earlier. (This date is not compatible with the history of the USS Ranger (CV 4) which states  http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ships/carriers/histories/cv04-ranger/cv04-ranger.html
Following training in Chesapeake Bay, the carrier underwent overhaul in the Norfolk Navy Yard from 16 December 1942 to 7 February 1943. She next transported 75 P-40-L Army pursuit planes to Africa, arriving Casablanca on 23 February)
And www.airgroup4.com/crochet.htm
The above statement is contradicted by Mr Crochet in his diary
Jan 7, 1943 -- Loading up with P-40s once again plus 4 TBFs.
Jan 12, 1943 -- Rodman (DD) made sub contact. Dropped ash cans (depth charges).
Jan 13, 1943 -- Fitch (DD) made sub contact. Dropped ash cans.
Jan 17, 1943 -- Ellyson (DD) made sub contact in afternoon. Dropped ash cans.
Jan 19, 1943 -- Launching P-40s at 0910 (to Casablanca, Morocco). 6 flights (72 planes).
Feb 13, 1943 -- Loading up with P-40s.
Feb 13, 1943 -- Left Norfolk at 1300. Rough sea, rolling and pitching.
Feb 16, 1943 -- Rodman (DD) made sub contact. No good.
Feb 23, 1943 -- Rodman made sub contact. Dropped ash cans. Two tin fish fired at us on our starboard bow. Missed.
Feb 24, 1943 -- Corry (DD) made sub contact and dropped 8 ash cans. Launched P-40s. Fitch made 2 sub contacts, dropped 16 ash cans.
Feb 25, 1943 -- Contacts during night. Launched all P-40s (to Casablanca).


Thanks for any clarification
Rob

http://raf-112-squadron.org/index3.html

USS Ranger
Following training in Chesapeake Bay, the carrier underwent overhaul in the Norfolk Navy Yard from 16 December 1942 to 7 February 1943. She next transported 75 P-40-L Army pursuit planes to Africa, arriving Casablanca on 23 February)
And www.airgroup4.com/crochet.htm
The above statement is contradicted by Mr Crochet in his diary

Below from Mr. Crochet diary..if you were to scoll almost to bottom of page..
 
 
Feb 13, 1943 -- Loading up with P-40s. Feb 13, 1943 -- Left Norfolk at 1300. Rough sea, rolling and pitching.
 
 
 
Terrry T.

Thanks for the feedback Terry, that is the point I was (in my confusing way) trying to make. The ship was under repairs in her "Offical" history but one of her Crewmen note they did make the Jan delivery which (I think) had to be the 325th FG.
My question is who/ what Unit was the forth delivery of P-40L, made in February?
 
Thanks
Rob

http://raf-112-squadron.org/index3.html

Rob,
There were many P-40s shipped out of Port Newark, NJ. to Africa. As to fighter groups or squadrons or just replacement planes, the gray matter between my ears once again blocks an intellegent answer. I have run across the Ranger and the Chenango in my sea travels the latter being in what we called the "Jeep Class" I will see if my books can give some input to your queary.

Fair Winds and Following Seas,   John
GM 3/C USS Snowden DE246--Frost DE144

Kin to LT. John W. Farnkopf  
15th AAF, 52 FG, 4th FS; Madna, Italy
MIA 11/11/44 remains found 12/8/53

Thanks John,
 
These I have narrowed down;
 
USS Chenango, 33rd FG
HMS Archer, Joker Squadron replacements for 33rd FG
USS Ranger 1st delivery (Unconfirmed) 33FG
USS Ranger 2nd delivery 57FG
USS Ranger 3rd delivery 325th FG
USS Ranger 4th delivery possibly 68 OTR/68 OG, 122nd Sq

http://raf-112-squadron.org/index3.html

Rob,

Somehow found references that May 1942 (= first?) delivery by USS Ranger involved 68 P-40E's for 51st FG, CBI theater. P-40s were launched, so to speak, off Accra. Aircraft made their way across Africa and Mid East for service in India. Some ended up with 23rd FG in China.

Regards,

Leendert

Rob,

The fourth delivery by USS Ranger in Feb. 1943 involved 75 P-40L replacements.
Interesting read as to how this came about: see http://funsite.unc.edu/hyperwar/AAF/II/AAF-II-4.html

Scroll down to page 130.

Regards,

Leendert

Rob,
Ship repairs can be a misnomer versus ship refit. From what I found, the Ranger was in Norfolk for their 2nd "Refit" of WWII. Replaced 5" guns with 40mm in JAN 43. Norfolk being our home port I am a little familiar with the difference between repairs and refits, the former could take an extended time according to the extent of the repairs, the latter a matter of only days under war conditions. Worse case, no major repairs they were in and out of there in 2 weeks.    

Fair Winds and Following Seas,   John
GM 3/C USS Snowden DE246--Frost DE144

Kin to LT. John W. Farnkopf  
15th AAF, 52 FG, 4th FS; Madna, Italy
MIA 11/11/44 remains found 12/8/53

Rob,
I guess refit and overhaul is in the eye of the beholder. Searching in another area I came up with the same facts as Terry as to the dates the Ranger was out of action. Due to the time length my guess it was a major overhaul in dry dock. As to the Chenango, it made only two plane delivery trips to Africa before being transferred to the Pacific. The first was on Sept 19,42 and the second on Oct 23,42 in "Operation Torch" to Port Lyautey, French Moroco. 
The first delivery for the Ranger was from Quonset Point RI, were they loaded 68 P-40s and men of the Armys 33rd pursuit Squadron on April 22,1942 to land at ACCRA on the Gold Coast of Africa. Their 2nd delivery of 72 P-40s to Africa left Newport, RI on July 1st and arrived off the coast of Africa on July 19th.

Fair Winds and Following Seas,   John
GM 3/C USS Snowden DE246--Frost DE144

Kin to LT. John W. Farnkopf  
15th AAF, 52 FG, 4th FS; Madna, Italy
MIA 11/11/44 remains found 12/8/53

Thank you all for your input into this, as it stands now from all your help I have:

From your information:

USS Chenango, 33rd FG  A little later, in mid-October,1942, in Norfolk, all eighty-seven planes in the group were hoisted aboard the carrier USS Chenango
 
From 2 July 1941 untill 16 March 1942, Chenango steamed 47,000 miles through the most dangerous waters, delivering 78, P-40's for operation Torch. This was her maiden voyage.



It made only two plane delivery trips to Africa before being transferred to the Pacific. The first was on Sept 19,42 and the second on Oct 23,42 in "Operation Torch" to Port Lyautey, French Moroco. 

HMS Archer, Joker Squadron replacements for 33rd FG

USS Ranger 1st delivery 51FG, Some ended up with 23rd FG in China
Apr 21, 1942 -- (76) Army Warhawks (P-40) are being loaded aboard.
May 10, 1942 -- Approximately 80 miles off coast of Accra, Africa (headquarters of Africa-Middle East Wing). Commenced to launch P-40s at 0800. Last flight at 1715. Takeoffs were fairly good

USS Ranger 2nd delivery 57FG
July 1, 1942 -- Loading up with Army (P-40) Warhawks (for the 57th Fighter Group). Left Quonset Pt. heading south.
July 19, 1942 -- Launched P-40s (from about 100 miles out to Africa-Middle East Wing headquarters in Accra, British Gold Coast). 4 flights (72 planes).

USS Ranger 3rd delivery 325th FG
Jan 7, 1943 -- Loading up with P-40s once again plus 4 TBFs
Jan 19, 1943 -- Launching P-40s at 0910 (to Casablanca, Morocco). 6 flights (72 planes).

USS Ranger 4th replacements for 33FG
Feb 13, 1943 -- Loading up with P-40s
Feb 25, 1943 -- Contacts during night. Launched all P-40s (to Casablanca).


Source for below: http://funsite.unc.edu/hyperwar/AAF/II/AAF-II-4.html  (Page 130)
 
By the time of the conference, a shortage had also developed in P-40's. The 33d Group had brought with it two months' replacements (Spaatz recommended that all groups committed to an operation such as TORCH carry along at least the first month's replacements),121 but it had donated twenty-five planes to re-equip a French squadron, the Lafayette Escadrille,122 and its losses at Thelepte began to be heavy. Here the Ranger proved invaluable. Admiral King made the carrier available as a result of a plea from Eisenhower to the War Department in December: it ferried the air echelon of the 325th Group--seventy-five P-40's and pilots diverted from the Ninth Air Force--in mid-January, the planes landing at Cazes;123 at the Casablanca conference Arnold asked for its continued good offices, and it brought seventy-five P-40L replacements in February.124 However, out at Thelepte, the 33d Group, short of new pilots and down to thirteen aircraft by the 1st of February, had to be relieved in the midst of intensive operations.125

Thank you all
Rob

http://raf-112-squadron.org/index3.html

Rob,

According to this article http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3901/is_200310/ai_n9326940/pg_18

carrier USS Chenango delivered the 33rd FG P-40s on its October 1942 voyage.
Article says they were launched 10-12 Nov. 1942?

Whole article worth a read, btw;

Regards,

Leendert

Excellent information

Regarding Terrys picture it give the confirmation for the Feb 1943 delivery.
HTML clipboardLookingaft on USS Ranger flight deck during daily warming up of P-40s.
1943, 58FG led off the USS Ranger by Major Harold J.Whiteman 25 Feb, 1943,
note there is no yellow surround to the fuselage star.
HTML clipboardNote the American Flag painted on the fuselage.
The closestplane 42-10506, Curtiss P-40L-5-CU Warhawk,was flown
off the USS Ranger by Smith, Edwin A, 311FS,58FG,  
it survived and wassurveyed Rome AAF, NY Aug 31, 1944

For a complete listing of Pilots and plane serials 311FS, 310FS, 69FS of 58FG replacement pilots http://www.geocities.com/raf_112_sqdn1/33rdfghonor_roll.html


Regards
Rob

http://raf-112-squadron.org/index3.html

Rob,
According to the Dictionary Of American Fighting Ships published by the Naval Historical Center, The USS Ranger CV4 was in drydock in Norfolk, VA for overhaul as Terry stated from Dec. 16, 1942 until Feb. 7, 1943. She made only three trips carrying P-40s, the third being 70 P-40 Ls to Casablanca. There was no trip on Jan. 7, 43 to Jan. 19th. She was high and dry in her dock.

Fair Winds and Following Seas,   John
GM 3/C USS Snowden DE246--Frost DE144

Kin to LT. John W. Farnkopf  
15th AAF, 52 FG, 4th FS; Madna, Italy
MIA 11/11/44 remains found 12/8/53

two color shots (colors have distorted badly) of P40's aboard a carrier....
maybe these help in this context...








cordially
Martin

Here is the photo that is supposed to be the 325FG on board the USS Ranger on that date perhaps someone will recognise the flight deck and give a clue as to which ship should be looked for.

Next to confuse the issue is what is reported to be a first hand account www.airgroup4.com/crochet.htm......

Attached Image(s)

Is this not the same "fenced off end on the flight deck ?

Attached Image(s)

Rob,
In a reply to Swiss Mustangs photo, The Island on that aircraft carrier is that of a an escort carrier.  If the photo fits the time frame it could be the Chenango or in it's class.  As to the validity of the sailors records being more valid than the Naval Historical records, I would leave that to the Experts. I will add this, I have a book written by a WWII AAF fighter pilot. The facts were supposedly taken from his dairy. I would love to vent my ire about all the mistakes in the book, but I dont want to sully Scotts great forum.     

Fair Winds and Following Seas,   John
GM 3/C USS Snowden DE246--Frost DE144

Kin to LT. John W. Farnkopf  
15th AAF, 52 FG, 4th FS; Madna, Italy
MIA 11/11/44 remains found 12/8/53

Rob,
According to the photo in my book, it matches yours and is that of the USS Ranger CV4

Fair Winds and Following Seas,   John
GM 3/C USS Snowden DE246--Frost DE144

Kin to LT. John W. Farnkopf  
15th AAF, 52 FG, 4th FS; Madna, Italy
MIA 11/11/44 remains found 12/8/53

Thanks John, the color photos may well be of the 33FG on the Chenago, or trials aboard the USS Wasp, could even be delivery of P-40 to Iceland aboard the USS Wasp.  If the photo is of the 325FG ( and I think it is) then it leaves the mystery open as to they got to Africa, if not on the USS Ranger.


Rob

The USS Chenango loaded and shipped 72 P-40F airplanes of the 33rd Fighter Group at Norfolk, VA, on 10-21-42.  One airplane, P-40F # 41-14255, crashed en route to Norfolk, killing pilot 2Lt. Burl F. Fink.  The carrier steamed for North Africa on 10-21-42.  The P-40s were launched off of the carrier on 11-10-42 and established a base at the airport at Port Lyautey, French Morocco.  This information was found on the AAF Form No. 14 Aircraft Accident Report concerning P-40F # 41-14255. 

TonyM.

Rob,
My photo guess is based on the size and shape of the island superstructure and the book photos I have on hand. This leaves out the larger aircraft carriers Wasp CV7 etc. which have a very large superstructure as compared to the CVE type carriers. I have to stick with the CVE Sangamon Class which includes the Chenango. I do not discount the first Wasp CV7 delivering P-4Os, but that is not the Wasp in the color photos. I have a large Naval book library, I will search for a possible answer.  

Fair Winds and Following Seas,   John
GM 3/C USS Snowden DE246--Frost DE144

Kin to LT. John W. Farnkopf  
15th AAF, 52 FG, 4th FS; Madna, Italy
MIA 11/11/44 remains found 12/8/53

In a review of the posts I re examined one by :

Leendert
 
http://funsite.unc.edu/hyperwar/AAF/II/AAF-II-4.html
The fighter replacement problem first became critical with the P-38's, which because of their versatility and endurance were used in a variety of roles during the early Tunisian fighting. (In November 1942 no other available Allied fighter, RAF or USAAF, had the tactical radius to operate from Youks against the front at Djedeida.) Doolittle had been forced to take planes from the 1st Group to keep the 14th at strength and use the 82d to make up attrition in the 1st and 14th.¹¹⁶ Nevertheless, at times the bomber command could not find a dozen P-38's for escort, and Cannon's pleas for fighters became progressively more desperate during January.¹¹⁷
The total strength of the three P-38 groups (minus one squadron) was down to ninety when Arnold came to the Casablanca conference. He initiated drastic action,¹¹⁸ ordering all P-38's in from England. The Twelfth had already scoured the United Kingdom for P-38's, and this
--130--

---

Rob,
One of the aircraft carriers I am looking into for a reply to your P-40 delivery is the USS Santee CVE 29 ex Seakay. This like the Chenango was an original Oil Tanker converted into an aircraft carrier. The Santee was the last of the four original tankers converted to CVEs to leave for the Pacific. It did make trips to Casablanca and did deliver
P-38s to Glasgow. I think the P-40 answer is in one of these converts since at one time they had all been to Africa. This may be a tough nut to crack. The other CVEs are the Sangamon CVE 26, ex ESSO Trenton, the Suwannee CVE 27, ex Markay, the Chenango CVE 28, ex Esso New Orleans. I hope all this input does'nt boggle the mind, but it's just to show that they did aide the US AAF in the early part of the war.

Fair Winds and Following Seas,   John
GM 3/C USS Snowden DE246--Frost DE144

Kin to LT. John W. Farnkopf  
15th AAF, 52 FG, 4th FS; Madna, Italy
MIA 11/11/44 remains found 12/8/53

Thanks John, one way or another the details of the P-40 deliveries do seem in contradiction to "Offical" releases regarding which ship did do what. It will be interesting to see what pans out.

Thank You for the time, effort and expertise you are puting into this.

Rob

Just an FYI -
In Book Twelfth Air Force Story by Kenn Rust
Photo of 33d FG P - 40 taking off from Carrier Chenango ,
destination Port Lyautey.
Photo of 325th FG P - 40s preparing to take off from
Carrier Ranger. P - 40 # 41 - 19952 first in line
Photo Dated 1/19/43
Mike

Thanks Mike;

First in Line for 325FG should make it Curtiss P-40F-20-CU Warhawk, of Austin, Gordon H, O-020161, Commanding Officer leads 72, P-40 off the USS Ranger  Did you happen to notice what number it had painted on itd lower cowling?

Heavy on the should at this point in time on my part.

Rob

Rob,
If the photo from the Ranger that Mike alludes to is dated 1-19-43 that shoots the Naval Historical Center dates for the Ranger being in dry dock in the "GIGI".

Fair Winds and Following Seas,   John
GM 3/C USS Snowden DE246--Frost DE144

Kin to LT. John W. Farnkopf  
15th AAF, 52 FG, 4th FS; Madna, Italy
MIA 11/11/44 remains found 12/8/53

John;

I concur, she must have had a quick refit due to Roosevelt's request to the Navy.

The P-40Fs on deck are probably 57FG as they have overall sand uppers, the other groups were mainly 2-colour; some have the 57th's 2-digit numbers on lower cowlings.
The forward fight deck has parallel edges like "Ranger", the "Sangamon's"  were angled inwards with a catapult to port. The 4 scout planes ( SB2Us ? ) with them are from VS-42, designators are on the fuselage (should have been removed by June 1942 (Midway) ) ; early in the war "Ranger" had Air Groups 41/42 aboard, then later  she had AG9 ( for "Torch").
I think this may be the 2nd delivery by "Ranger" ( July 1942 ? ) when the 57th flew on to Palestine.
Martin's photos must be post-June 1943, the P-40s (probably Es or Ks ) have the revised insignia; could be a "Casablanca" or "Bogue" class CVE in the Pacific (maybe), the islands are very similar.
The yellow outline to the insignia was only for "Torch", also on Navy F4Fs and SBDs as well as Army types.

Nick

Hugh-  didn't mean to step on any toes.

All good Nick until we get to this entry from the "first hand account" 
"Jan 7, 1943 -- Loading up with P-40s once again plus 4 TBFs.

Rob

Rob - Photo is Right Side - There is some white writing on Cowl
but can't make it out.
American Flag on side between Cockpit and Circle / Star Emblem.
Mike

Thanks Mike;

Right side...no number ...Rats..then again first off would not really need a number...thinking the numbers may have been used to identify order of take off, most I have seen are on the Pilots right (in cockpit) lower engine cowl, they look "stenciled" as opposed to chaulked on.... speculation only they may not have been a permanent paint.

The flags from what I have been able to determine where applied aboard ship during the crossing so far it all fits. I have run across a reference (of course unable to lay my hands on it at the moment) that refers to 325FG plane going over with sand upper 616 color on the planes. That would still fit as many planes where camoflaged in theatre resulting in a "hazy" demarkation line between the colours ( in the case of RAF) planes.

Keeps it interesting dont it
Rob

Rob -
The 3d P - 40 in line has a small white number on
left side , lower Cowl. Can't make it out.
Studying # 41 - 19952 - it has an NMF ring around
Cowling behind Spinner. Also a Section of NMF from
Wing Root up to Cockpit. Top half of tail is NMF.
P - 40s behind look all Camo.
Mike

Rob -
Many Copies of 12th AF Book by Rust
on www.abebooks.com
Mike

Rob,
My guess as to the TBFs were for the protection of the carrier enroute to home. Going they were in a convoy and had other protection. The Ranger was big enough to utilize the TBFs for scouting of U-Boats going to Africa and returning. Returning they may have had a DD or two. The TBFs could be loaded with depth charges or bombs, and the planes would be sent aloft to seek U-Boats in the path of the Carrier. Our CVE was the "Jeep Carrier" Crotan. It's TBFs had a few U-Boat sinkings to it's credit. The Island structure of Mikes photo does not fit the Bogue class of which there were 11 carriers. The Bogue class was built for convoy & "Hunter Killer Group" action. It was the smallest of the carriers About 495 ft. As to take off procedure, to the best of my gray brained matter knowledge, there was a numeric sequence as to who goes first,second etc. but no particular plane number. The plane next in line was pulled in by the deck crew, and it was "pot luck", that is why no personal names on Navy or Marine aircraft. You may get the Cadillac one day and the Model T the next. 

Fair Winds and Following Seas,   John
GM 3/C USS Snowden DE246--Frost DE144

Kin to LT. John W. Farnkopf  
15th AAF, 52 FG, 4th FS; Madna, Italy
MIA 11/11/44 remains found 12/8/53

buckeyeuk


The P-40Fs on deck are probably 57FG as they have overall sand uppers, the other groups were mainly 2-colour; some have the 57th's 2-digit numbers on lower cowlings.
The forward fight deck has parallel edges like "Ranger", the "Sangamon's"  were angled inwards with a catapult to port. The 4 scout planes ( SB2Us ? ) with them are from VS-42, designators are on the fuselage (should have been removed by June 1942 (Midway) ) ; early in the war "Ranger" had Air Groups 41/42 aboard, then later  she had AG9 ( for "Torch").
I think this may be the 2nd delivery by "Ranger" ( July 1942 ? ) when the 57th flew on to Palestine.
Martin's photos must be post-June 1943, the P-40s (probably Es or Ks ) have the revised insignia; could be a "Casablanca" or "Bogue" class CVE in the Pacific (maybe), the islands are very similar.
The yellow outline to the insignia was only for "Torch", also on Navy F4Fs and SBDs as well as Army types.

Nick

Hugh-  didn't mean to step on any toes.

This post by Nick then would be spot on for the 57FG then, I will correct my picture on the 33FG information page and keep digging around the net for more on the 325FG.
Using Nicks information the CBD should have no side numbers on them if they are included in a photo.
Johns explanation of their presence on board of course makes all kinds of sense once one is exposed to it.

Thank you all, my quest continues
Rob

Rob....TBFs were replacing SB2Us on escort carriers from mid-1942; you can check the time-scale as they had 4-position wing insignia from June 1942-Feb. 1943 when top right and lower left were removed.
John...the "Wasp" was operating with the Royal Navy in 1942, then delivering Spitfires to Malta later in the year ;sunk in Pacific soon after.
Most Army aircraft were transported by the smaller "Jeep" carriers especially in the Pacific.
Nick

Using the dropped wing insignia as a criteria leaves this photo open for closer inspection exception being the color of the P-40, admittedly I am lost when it comes to Navy planes. Should there be a hint of star Insignia on both wings then?

Rob

Attached Image(s)

Rob,
After my reply about the Bogues being Sub chasers only, I thought I better do a photo check about the star on Navy planes. One star on fighters and PB4Ys left topside of wing. havent found photo of bottom side yet, other then your attachment.  A big WAG on my part is, star on top left wing and star on bottom right wing.  
Nick, thanks for the heads up on CVEs mission in the Pacific. I keep forgeting there were two US Navies fighting two different kinds of war. There were 11 Bogue type CVEs with 5 in the Atlantic 6 in the Pacific. Most CVEs were of the Casablanca class, slightly larger, but with a smaller complement.   

Fair Winds and Following Seas,   John
GM 3/C USS Snowden DE246--Frost DE144

Kin to LT. John W. Farnkopf  
15th AAF, 52 FG, 4th FS; Madna, Italy
MIA 11/11/44 remains found 12/8/53