look, i hate to be picky,but look at the national insignia on the top side of the p-40 wings. that is a later in the war national marking. you guys that are more expert that i can date the changes in use of national insignia designs to the year and month. this delivery whenever it occured was not in 1942 or 1943.

Hal,
Are you refering to the design or location? of the insignia. If the design, I dont know when it was changed, but it was early in the war because of the confusion with the "meatball", I cannot attest to the validity for the reason. 
If you are refering to location;

On Jan.5,1942; Change in regulations, covering the display of National insignia on aircraft returned the star to the upper right and lower left wing surfaces.

On Feb.1,1943; Regulation changed again to remove the National Insignia from those on the upper right and lower left wings.  

Fair Winds and following seas.
John, (GM 3/C USS Frost DE 144)

Kin to LT. John W. Farnkopf
15th AAF, 52 FG, 4th FS; Madna, Italy
MIA 11/11/44 remains found 12/8/53

February 26, 1941          An extensive modification of aircraft marking specifications introduced the following basic changes: . National Aircraft Insignia were added to both sides of the fuselage or hull and two were eliminated from the wings, leaving one on the upper left and one on the lower right. . Branch of Service marking was moved from the fuselage to the vertical fin above the Bureau Number, the figures were reduced in size and letters "U.S." omitted. 

January 5, 1942       National Aircraft Insignia were returned to both right and left, upper and lower wing surfaces.

May 15, 1942       The red disc in the center of the National Aircraft Insignia and horizontal red and white rudder striping were eliminated.

November 1942           In preparation for Operaton Torch, the Allied invasion of French North Africa, an amendment to Operation Memorandum Number 9, dated Sept. 25, 1942, was published by Allied Force Headquarters. It directed that all American aircraft participatng in the invasion display a yellow circle around the national aircraft insignia on each side of the fuselage and on both lower wing surfaces. 

February 1, 1943       One National Aircraft Insignia was again removed from the upper and lower wing surfaces, leaving one on the upper left and one on the lower right.

June 28, 1943          A change in the National Aircraft Insignia added White rectangles to the left and right sides of the Blue circular field to form a horizontal bar, and also added a Red border stripe around the entire design. 

September 14,1943      The red border stripe was eliminated from the National Aircraft Insignia and use of Insignia Blue was ordered in its place.


Dates are when these changes were ordered, but remember that it was sometimes weeks or months before the planes in the field were brought into compliance.

SHAEF1944 American Veterans Museum

Richard,
Thanks for the dates. I knew the red disk was eliminated early in the war, but did not have a specific date. I have heard a couple of versions for the change, but none validated. (Veronica, OY !!)

Fair Winds and following seas.
John, (GM 3/C USS Frost DE 144)

Kin to LT. John W. Farnkopf
15th AAF, 52 FG, 4th FS; Madna, Italy
MIA 11/11/44 remains found 12/8/53

John, I always heard the red disc was done away with because of the confusion with the Japanese meatball also.  I kinda wonder if thats the whole story, because I also have read ... I think in one of the AAF Historical monographs .... that the reason the white bars were added to the insignia was that at a distance, the eye could not really discern color, only shapes.  The old style insignia, being just round, might be confused at a distance with the round Japanese meatball, or the British markings. The German cross looked like a square.  Adding the bars caused the eye to see a rectangle at a distance on US aircraft.
If thats the reason for the white bars being added, I dont see how the small red center could have made much difference, unless early in the war combat took place at closer ranges in the Pacific.  I'll try to find where I read the above and see if it states the reason.

SHAEF1944 American Veterans Museum

Richard,
The story I got is in one of my books on the war in the Pacific. It took place in the early part of the war and was a shooting battle between the airforce  (Navy/Army ??) and some PT boats, at some island. I dont recall the exact scenario, but the meatball confusion played a big part in it and supposedly helped lead to the National insignia change.  

Fair Winds and following seas.
John, (GM 3/C USS Frost DE 144)

Kin to LT. John W. Farnkopf
15th AAF, 52 FG, 4th FS; Madna, Italy
MIA 11/11/44 remains found 12/8/53

Ok, this is from the August 1943 issue of  Navy's  BuAer News. Hope the pic is large enough to read the printing.  Explains the adding of the bars to the insignia.

Attached Image(s)

SHAEF1944 American Veterans Museum

i was too hasty in typing in my suggestion that everyone look at the national insignia on the p-40's in the two color photos ( i omitted-- color photos) . the national insignia has the june 28,1943 mandated white retangles on either side of the national aircraft insignia. the last of the four p-40 deliveries of cv-4 ranger occurred on 24 february 1943.  hope that helps the discussion. h.w.

Richard--John          it's certainly a fact that the RAF removed the red from their insignia in the Far East in about July 1943; the dark blue in the upper wing cockade tended to merge with the camouflage leaving a red disc . Their original solution was a blue disc with white centre ( as per the RAAF ) but this was found too conspicuous so the white was changed to a simple mix of blue-white similar to Azure Blue; these came to be known as " SEAC markings ".
Similarly fin stripes were light/dark blue.
The blue-white cockades were to be in line with the AAF white star on a blue disc but in the event they were also revising their insignia at this time.
As you say the US, RAF,Italian and German national insignia ( also the Japanese when it had a white border) all tended to appear as a white dot at a distance, hence the addition of bars. For the same reason the RAF reduced the white in theirs from mid-1942.
Incidentally the upper wing insignia on USN planes was usually a mix of white and light grey and often had no "borders".

Nick

Good catch on the Star and bar in the color photos John, I thinkthat alone should eliminate those from a Ranger/Africa delivery.....of course it now begs the question of where what when......

List is shaping up to look like

1st USAAF, P-40 flown of a carrier USS Wasp to Iceland.
2nd USAAF, P-40 delivery  in Wartime USS Ranger (her 1st) 51FG,  [color=#000000 editorid="ctl01_contentplaceholder1_ctl01_body"][canaddcustomcolors="true"][stripabsoluteimagespaths="true"][commoninternalparameters="u2tpblbhdggsrmfsc2usmcxmmupowkvodmjuunlimnh6tdbwa2fyunzjatluytjsdwn5ouvav1pozfd4me1qqxdoatg9"]Morel deflated a few days later when 10th Air Force [color=#000000 editorid="ctl01_contentplaceholder1_ctl01_body"][canaddcustomcolors="true"][stripabsoluteimagespaths="true"][commoninternalparameters="u2tpblbhdggsrmfsc2usmcxmmupowkvodmjuunlimnh6tdbwa2fyunzjatluytjsdwn5ouvav1pozfd4me1qqxdoatg9"]announced that no personnel would be returned to the ZI except for medical or extreme emergencies.  On the 17th, the 26th lost its first P-40, Lt. Lucia cracked it up.  It is salvageable.  On the 20th a pilot from the 16th FS was in a 26th FS P-40 when it went into a dive and its pilot was killed.  On the 21st, planes began arriving.   These P-40s had taken off the carrier USS Ranger, off the coast of Africa, flown across Africa, the Middle Eastern countries and into Karachi.  The 26th received 4, six more came in the 23rd, 2 more on the 24th and 10 more on the 27th.  All P-40s were in sad condition and personnel were broken into shifts and worked around the clock.  Some of the pilots from the carrier, USS Ranger, assigned to the 26th were:  Lts Edward M. Nollmeyer, Charles H. Colwell, George M. Colarich, Arthur W. Cruikshank, Vernon Ellifritz, Lyle T. Boley, John F. Coonan, John Svennigsen, John L. Yantis, Jr., Horace C. Atkins and Earl C. Bishop.
3rd USAAF, P-40, USS Ranger (her 2nd) 57FG
3rd USS Cenango, 33FG
4th HMS Archer, Detachment J or Jokers
5th USAAF, P-40, USS Ranger (her 3rd), 58FG
6th USAAF, P-40 USS Ranger (her 4th), 325FG which I think is backed up in Ken Rusts book via Mikes post

This look like it to you folks as well?

Thanks one and all
Rob

http://www.geocities.com/raf_112_sqdn/

Rob             it's probably not a coincidence that as designed the "Ranger"'s complement was 2 squadrons of 36 planes ( one fighter, one scout/bomber ) plus 4 utility aircraft; your list says 72 carried for the 57FG, and there are 4 SB2U scout planes spotted with them ( ? ).
Nick

buckeyeuk


Rob             it's probably not a coincidence that as designed the "Ranger"'s complement was 2 squadrons of 36 planes ( one fighter, one scout/bomber ) plus 4 utility aircraft; your list says 72 carried for the 57FG, and there are 4 SB2U scout planes spotted with them ( ? ).
Nick

36+36=72 plus as you noted 4 utility aircraft adds up to me Nick
I will be the first to admit as yet thru my only resource ( the internet) I have not found the list of which Pilot was assigned to which plane, as has been done for the 58th FG. What I have found are the names of 71 of the 72 Pilots that flew off the Ranger.

PS for the USS Chenago, I have seen as many as 87 another source said 78 and yet another said 77 and 72, P-40s of the 33rd launched from the Chenango and ran into a thick bank of fog with one P-40 being immediately lost.

So for I have had (e-mailed to me) identity of a few of those Pilots
Rob