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 USS Ranger P-40 deliveries
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Anthony J. Mireles

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Re:USS Ranger P-40 deliveries - 09/02/2008 06:07:05 PM
The USS Chenango loaded and shipped 72 P-40F airplanes of the 33rd Fighter Group at Norfolk, VA, on 10-21-42.  One airplane, P-40F # 41-14255, crashed en route to Norfolk, killing pilot 2Lt. Burl F. Fink.  The carrier steamed for North Africa on 10-21-42.  The P-40s were launched off of the carrier on 11-10-42 and established a base at the airport at Port Lyautey, French Morocco.  This information was found on the AAF Form No. 14 Aircraft Accident Report concerning P-40F # 41-14255. 

TonyM.
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RE: USS Ranger P-40 deliveries - 09/02/2008 07:19:18 PM
Rob,
My photo guess is based on the size and shape of the island superstructure and the book photos I have on hand. This leaves out the larger aircraft carriers Wasp CV7 etc. which have a very large superstructure as compared to the CVE type carriers. I have to stick with the CVE Sangamon Class which includes the Chenango. I do not discount the first Wasp CV7 delivering P-4Os, but that is not the Wasp in the color photos. I have a large Naval book library, I will search for a possible answer.  
<message edited by Yunch on 09/03/2008 05:19:16 AM >
Fair Winds and following seas.
John, (GM 3/C USS Frost DE 144)

Kin to LT. John W. Farnkopf
15th AAF, 52 FG, 4th FS; Madna, Italy
MIA 11/11/44 remains found 12/8/53
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RE: USS Ranger P-40 deliveries - 09/03/2008 07:46:41 AM
In a review of the posts I re examined one by :

Leendert
 
http://funsite.unc.edu/hyperwar/AAF/II/AAF-II-4.html
The fighter replacement problem first became critical with the P-38's, which because of their versatility and endurance were used in a variety of roles during the early Tunisian fighting. (In November 1942 no other available Allied fighter, RAF or USAAF, had the tactical radius to operate from Youks against the front at Djedeida.) Doolittle had been forced to take planes from the 1st Group to keep the 14th at strength and use the 82d to make up attrition in the 1st and 14th.116 Nevertheless, at times the bomber command could not find a dozen P-38's for escort, and Cannon's pleas for fighters became progressively more desperate during January.117
The total strength of the three P-38 groups (minus one squadron) was down to ninety when Arnold came to the Casablanca conference. He initiated drastic action,118 ordering all P-38's in from England. The Twelfth had already scoured the United Kingdom for P-38's, and this
--130--

order brought down the last of the Eighth's P-38 units, the 78th Group, which had been held in "strategic reserve" ( Appoximately 54 planes, note by Rob)for Doolittle.119 Eisenhower having assigned the necessary priority, Arnold sent instructions that additional P-38's were to be sent from the United States as deck loads on cargo vessels--a novel method of carrying them on specially constructed stands on tanker decks had also been devised120--and still others were to be flown over the South Atlantic via Ascension.
By the time of the conference, a shortage had also developed in P-40's. The 33d Group had brought with it two months' replacements (Spaatz recommended that all groups committed to an operation such as TORCH carry along at least the first month's replacements),121 but it had donated twenty-five planes to re-equip a French squadron, the Lafayette Escadrille,122 and its losses at Thelepte began to be heavy. Here the Ranger proved invaluable. Admiral King made the carrier available as a result of a plea from Eisenhower to the War Department in December: it ferried the air echelon of the 325th Group--seventy-five P-40's and pilots diverted from the Ninth Air Force--in mid-January, the planes landing at Cazes;123 at the Casablanca conference Arnold asked for its continued good offices, and it brought seventy-five P-40L replacements in February.124 However, out at Thelepte, the 33d Group, short of new pilots and down to thirteen aircraft by the 1st of February, had to be relieved in the midst of intensive operations.125

116. Ltr., Doolittle to Arnold, 30 Nov. 1942.

117. Montgomery Rpt.; msgs., Cannon to CG 12th AF, 1926, 2637, 2873, on 17, 24, 31 Jan. 1943.

118. Msg., Allied AF to AGWAR, 7038, 24 Jan. 1943
119. Memo for AC/S, OPD from Brig. Gen. O.A. Anderson, 3 Nov. 1942; ltrs., Eaker to Spaatz, 29 Jan. 1943, and Stratemeyer to Eaker, 8 Mar. 943.
120. Memo for AFAEP from Traffic Div., AC/AS, MM&D, 21 Apr. 1943; CM-IN-11794 (1-26-43), 12th AF to ASCPFO, 2038, 25 Jan. 1943.
121. Msg., Allied AF to AGWAR, 7158, 25 Jan. 1943.
122. CM-IN-10052 (12-23-42), Algiers to AGWAR, 2784, 22 Dec. 1942.
123. CM-OUT-9078 (12-27-42), OPD to Freedom, Algiers, 513, 26 Dec. 1942; CM-IN-1976 (12-28-42), Algiers to WAR, 3359, 28 Dec. 1942; memo for CG AAF and CG SOS from OPD, 28 Dec. 1942.
124. Msg., Allied AF to AGWAR, 7038, 24 Jan. 1943; msg. AGWAR to AFHQ, 1748, 2 Feb. 1943.
125. McCormick Rpt. as in n. 113; History, 33d Fighter Gp.
 
Yunch

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RE: USS Ranger P-40 deliveries - 09/03/2008 12:35:34 PM
Rob,
One of the aircraft carriers I am looking into for a reply to your P-40 delivery is the USS Santee CVE 29 ex Seakay. This like the Chenango was an original Oil Tanker converted into an aircraft carrier. The Santee was the last of the four original tankers converted to CVEs to leave for the Pacific. It did make trips to Casablanca and did deliver
P-38s to Glasgow. I think the P-40 answer is in one of these converts since at one time they had all been to Africa. This may be a tough nut to crack. The other CVEs are the Sangamon CVE 26, ex ESSO Trenton, the Suwannee CVE 27, ex Markay, the Chenango CVE 28, ex Esso New Orleans. I hope all this input does'nt boggle the mind, but it's just to show that they did aide the US AAF in the early part of the war.
Fair Winds and following seas.
John, (GM 3/C USS Frost DE 144)

Kin to LT. John W. Farnkopf
15th AAF, 52 FG, 4th FS; Madna, Italy
MIA 11/11/44 remains found 12/8/53
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RE: USS Ranger P-40 deliveries - 09/03/2008 01:11:16 PM
Thanks John, one way or another the details of the P-40 deliveries do seem in contradiction to "Offical" releases regarding which ship did do what. It will be interesting to see what pans out.

Thank You for the time, effort and expertise you are puting into this.

Rob
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RE: USS Ranger P-40 deliveries - 09/03/2008 05:10:19 PM
Just an FYI -
In Book Twelfth Air Force Story by Kenn Rust
Photo of 33d FG P - 40 taking off from Carrier Chenango ,
destination Port Lyautey.
Photo of 325th FG P - 40s preparing to take off from
Carrier Ranger. P - 40 # 41 - 19952 first in line
Photo Dated 1/19/43
Mike
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RE: USS Ranger P-40 deliveries - 09/03/2008 05:26:24 PM
Thanks Mike;

First in Line for 325FG should make it Curtiss P-40F-20-CU Warhawk, of Austin, Gordon H, O-020161, Commanding Officer leads 72, P-40 off the USS Ranger  Did you happen to notice what number it had painted on itd lower cowling?

Heavy on the should at this point in time on my part.

Rob
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RE: USS Ranger P-40 deliveries - 09/03/2008 05:44:27 PM
Rob,
If the photo from the Ranger that Mike alludes to is dated 1-19-43 that shoots the Naval Historical Center dates for the Ranger being in dry dock in the "GIGI".
Fair Winds and following seas.
John, (GM 3/C USS Frost DE 144)

Kin to LT. John W. Farnkopf
15th AAF, 52 FG, 4th FS; Madna, Italy
MIA 11/11/44 remains found 12/8/53
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RE: USS Ranger P-40 deliveries - 09/03/2008 05:51:51 PM
John;

I concur, she must have had a quick refit due to Roosevelt's request to the Navy.
buckeyeuk

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RE: USS Ranger P-40 deliveries - 09/04/2008 07:16:10 AM
The P-40Fs on deck are probably 57FG as they have overall sand uppers, the other groups were mainly 2-colour; some have the 57th's 2-digit numbers on lower cowlings.
The forward fight deck has parallel edges like "Ranger", the "Sangamon's"  were angled inwards with a catapult to port. The 4 scout planes ( SB2Us ? ) with them are from VS-42, designators are on the fuselage (should have been removed by June 1942 (Midway) ) ; early in the war "Ranger" had Air Groups 41/42 aboard, then later  she had AG9 ( for "Torch").
I think this may be the 2nd delivery by "Ranger" ( July 1942 ? ) when the 57th flew on to Palestine.
Martin's photos must be post-June 1943, the P-40s (probably Es or Ks ) have the revised insignia; could be a "Casablanca" or "Bogue" class CVE in the Pacific (maybe), the islands are very similar.
The yellow outline to the insignia was only for "Torch", also on Navy F4Fs and SBDs as well as Army types.

Nick

Hugh-  didn't mean to step on any toes.
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RE: USS Ranger P-40 deliveries - 09/04/2008 07:35:21 AM
All good Nick until we get to this entry from the "first hand account" 
"Jan 7, 1943 -- Loading up with P-40s once again plus 4 TBFs.

Rob
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RE: USS Ranger P-40 deliveries - 09/04/2008 11:41:09 AM
Rob - Photo is Right Side - There is some white writing on Cowl
but can't make it out.
American Flag on side between Cockpit and Circle / Star Emblem.
Mike
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RE: USS Ranger P-40 deliveries - 09/04/2008 11:58:10 AM
Thanks Mike;

Right side...no number ...Rats..then again first off would not really need a number...thinking the numbers may have been used to identify order of take off, most I have seen are on the Pilots right (in cockpit) lower engine cowl, they look "stenciled" as opposed to chaulked on.... speculation only they may not have been a permanent paint.

The flags from what I have been able to determine where applied aboard ship during the crossing so far it all fits. I have run across a reference (of course unable to lay my hands on it at the moment) that refers to 325FG plane going over with sand upper 616 color on the planes. That would still fit as many planes where camoflaged in theatre resulting in a "hazy" demarkation line between the colours ( in the case of RAF) planes.

Keeps it interesting dont it
Rob
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RE: USS Ranger P-40 deliveries - 09/04/2008 12:13:57 PM
Rob -
The 3d P - 40 in line has a small white number on
left side , lower Cowl. Can't make it out.
Studying # 41 - 19952 - it has an NMF ring around
Cowling behind Spinner. Also a Section of NMF from
Wing Root up to Cockpit. Top half of tail is NMF.
P - 40s behind look all Camo.
Mike


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RE: USS Ranger P-40 deliveries - 09/04/2008 12:18:35 PM
Rob -
Many Copies of 12th AF Book by Rust
on www.abebooks.com
Mike
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RE: USS Ranger P-40 deliveries - 09/04/2008 01:24:27 PM
Rob,
My guess as to the TBFs were for the protection of the carrier enroute to home. Going they were in a convoy and had other protection. The Ranger was big enough to utilize the TBFs for scouting of U-Boats going to Africa and returning. Returning they may have had a DD or two. The TBFs could be loaded with depth charges or bombs, and the planes would be sent aloft to seek U-Boats in the path of the Carrier. Our CVE was the "Jeep Carrier" Crotan. It's TBFs had a few U-Boat sinkings to it's credit. The Island structure of Mikes photo does not fit the Bogue class of which there were 11 carriers. The Bogue class was built for convoy & "Hunter Killer Group" action. It was the smallest of the carriers About 495 ft. As to take off procedure, to the best of my gray brained matter knowledge, there was a numeric sequence as to who goes first,second etc. but no particular plane number. The plane next in line was pulled in by the deck crew, and it was "pot luck", that is why no personal names on Navy or Marine aircraft. You may get the Cadillac one day and the Model T the next. 
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John, (GM 3/C USS Frost DE 144)

Kin to LT. John W. Farnkopf
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MIA 11/11/44 remains found 12/8/53
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RE: USS Ranger P-40 deliveries - 09/04/2008 02:15:58 PM
buckeyeuk


The P-40Fs on deck are probably 57FG as they have overall sand uppers, the other groups were mainly 2-colour; some have the 57th's 2-digit numbers on lower cowlings.
The forward fight deck has parallel edges like "Ranger", the "Sangamon's"  were angled inwards with a catapult to port. The 4 scout planes ( SB2Us ? ) with them are from VS-42, designators are on the fuselage (should have been removed by June 1942 (Midway) ) ; early in the war "Ranger" had Air Groups 41/42 aboard, then later  she had AG9 ( for "Torch").
I think this may be the 2nd delivery by "Ranger" ( July 1942 ? ) when the 57th flew on to Palestine.
Martin's photos must be post-June 1943, the P-40s (probably Es or Ks ) have the revised insignia; could be a "Casablanca" or "Bogue" class CVE in the Pacific (maybe), the islands are very similar.
The yellow outline to the insignia was only for "Torch", also on Navy F4Fs and SBDs as well as Army types.

Nick

Hugh-  didn't mean to step on any toes.


This post by Nick then would be spot on for the 57FG then, I will correct my picture on the 33FG information page and keep digging around the net for more on the 325FG.
Using Nicks information the CBD should have no side numbers on them if they are included in a photo.
Johns explanation of their presence on board of course makes all kinds of sense once one is exposed to it.

Thank you all, my quest continues
Rob
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RE: USS Ranger P-40 deliveries - 09/04/2008 02:44:16 PM
Rob....TBFs were replacing SB2Us on escort carriers from mid-1942; you can check the time-scale as they had 4-position wing insignia from June 1942-Feb. 1943 when top right and lower left were removed.
John...the "Wasp" was operating with the Royal Navy in 1942, then delivering Spitfires to Malta later in the year ;sunk in Pacific soon after.
Most Army aircraft were transported by the smaller "Jeep" carriers especially in the Pacific.
Nick
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RE: USS Ranger P-40 deliveries - 09/04/2008 03:20:03 PM
Using the dropped wing insignia as a criteria leaves this photo open for closer inspection exception being the color of the P-40, admittedly I am lost when it comes to Navy planes. Should there be a hint of star Insignia on both wings then?

Rob
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RE: USS Ranger P-40 deliveries - 09/04/2008 04:56:45 PM
Rob,
After my reply about the Bogues being Sub chasers only, I thought I better do a photo check about the star on Navy planes. One star on fighters and PB4Ys left topside of wing. havent found photo of bottom side yet, other then your attachment.  A big WAG on my part is, star on top left wing and star on bottom right wing.  
Nick, thanks for the heads up on CVEs mission in the Pacific. I keep forgeting there were two US Navies fighting two different kinds of war. There were 11 Bogue type CVEs with 5 in the Atlantic 6 in the Pacific. Most CVEs were of the Casablanca class, slightly larger, but with a smaller complement.   
Fair Winds and following seas.
John, (GM 3/C USS Frost DE 144)

Kin to LT. John W. Farnkopf
15th AAF, 52 FG, 4th FS; Madna, Italy
MIA 11/11/44 remains found 12/8/53
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