History: Willow Run Liberators

Ken a B24 Fan,
I thought I'd post a couple more photos from my collection within the Willow Run Plant.  I chose these two which show the famous "tax turn" with B-24E's (already in olive drab and defined green houses) from 1943 and a similar photo from a slightly different vantage point of B-24J's in September of 1944.  The short version of the "Tax Turn" (one of many little names given to the Ford Willow Run  Plant by the media) is that the mile long plant was built in the shape of the letter "L" with the longest leg (approx 3/4 mile) running from west to east in Washtenaw County, Michigan.  To avoid running into Wayne County, the plant took a right angle turn to the south for the remainin 1/4 mile of the final (finish) assembly, inspecion and fueling.  This gave a tax advantage to Ford keeping he plant in one county.  Two turntables were used to pivot the ships for the last leg.  Today, at the GM Powertrain Transmission Plant at Willow Run, my office sits between where the two turn tables formerly existed.  Going forward, I'll post further threads and photos, if there is an interest in "the Arsenal of Democracy" folks who made up the "Greatest Generation."  I also post under the name "WillowRun" on the  B-24 PB4Y Research Web:       http://b24bw.proboards33.com/
"They are not forgotten."        WillowRun

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Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

Steven,

Thanks for posting this and the pictures. For those of us who love B-24's, the mere mention of Willow Run puts a little warmth in the heart. Hope to see more of your posts here.

A friend and I visited the Yankee Air Museum about 3 or 4 years ago. I well remember the last Willow Run hangar there (a maintenance hangar back in the day?). Our visit was two days before a huge "Thunder Over Michigan" fly-in and symposium, featuring Gunther Rall that year. Even though things were very hectic, people took time to talk to us and let us clamber around inside Yankee Lady. What a great bunch of people.

We were VERY sorry to hear about the fire, but it looks like things are moving ahead now.

Reed Hammans

Steve, A bit of trivia.   I went through R-2800 school at Willow Run. We were aware that the B-24s were being made there but were never in the area.

Since Willow Run is maybe 160 miles from my home, I hitchhiked home on the weekend.  One Friday night, a semi picked me up. I had never seen such an outfit.  The drivers told me that there was an entire B-24 in the trailor with the exception of the engines. They were headed for the west coast.

The tractor was something else!  Two heavy duty Ford truck engine side by side gave it plenty of power.  That thing walked through the Irish Hill and the driver 'grabbed a gear' once!


                         Art Tait    3rd Air Force

ART - More trivia, (remember, folks, this was long before the Interstate Highway system) –widespread complaints about Will-It Run knockdown kit tractor trailers tying-up small town road junctions were so intense that they reached the Roosevelt White House. -Adrian

Adrian & Art,               I thought I had a photo of an actual "truck-in-transit" about which Art was speaking, but the best I could find was a USAAF/Ford promotional photograph of an early B24E "knockdown."  (I've been having a bit of a problem lately setting up and sending photos, so I hope these open okay).   I can imagine the drive through the Irish Hills of Michigan back then, as it still is quite a drive today, especially in bad weather!  I've also attached one of my "favorites," the "final stop."  This beautiful B-24M is at the fueling depot (notice the door behind has been lowered), the fueling  has probably been completed,  the final walk-around finished and the hanger door is open for it to roll onto the tarmack of the adjacent Willow Run Airport.    "They are not forgotten!"      WillowRun

Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

OOOPS,   Thread did not show attachments!   If it doesn't attach this time, Gentlemn, I am having  computer trouble and apologize.  It will be corrected!  WillowRun

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Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

  Steven    Your photos are fantastic. This brings a question I’ve had for a while and it seems that now is a good time to ask: How much did a B-24 cost right off the assembly line? Prices may have differed between the models but basically how much did one cost? How many of them were built?                           Don

Steven:

Again, great photos. You're right, the photo of the B-24M is gorgeous. It made the venerable Liberator look modern and purposeful.

Thanks for sharing them.

Ken

PS: FYI. Your photo TAXTURN44 for some reason only shows as very tiny when I open it. All of the others are large and great to view.

Ken Alexander
Son of 1st Lt. Clair B. Alexander Jr.
Pilot, B-24s: 10/12/1944 - 04/24/1945
15th AF, 49th Wing, 461st BG, 764th BS
Torretta Airfield, Cerignola, Italy

Interesting picture of an early E model. Original pitot tube location and no astrodome.

More Trivia  Off Topic

I would like to tip my hat to the cooks at the R-2800 school at Willow Run. For my entire stay,6-8 weeks, I had just two meals that were bad although I will admit that I was a chow-hound.(G)

One evening, a group of 'entertainers' came out from Detroit. They arrived in time to sit down for the evening meal.  The menu was plain 'ol golush but every cook in the place must have dumped in a five pound sack of pepper.

Since I was a crew member on the China clipper that evening, I was able to stand and watch the diners.  What a circus.  You have seen people who would liberaly salt and pepper their food before even tasting it. Just one taste and frantic stirring took place.

The ladies in the visiting group failed to see the humor in the situation and were more than a bit miffed(G)

                         Art Tait   3rd Air Force

Don,
According to Allan Blue's book The B-24 Liberator, costs would have varied, but came down as production rose:  "Each B-24A cost $341,960; a typical B-24J cost $210,943.” (There are further cost breakdowns in a table, if you’re interested, e.g., for the airframe, “Government Furnished Equipment”, etc.)

As an aside, David R. Davis, inventor of the B-24’s wing, had an agreement with Consolidated dating from 1938 to receive a fee for each aircraft sold using his wing design. The original commission was $2,500 for each prototype, with a decreasing royalty percentage as sales increased. Mr. Blue notes that from 1 April 1943, the payment per Liberator was reduced from $92.71 (the going royalty rate of 1/16 of 1% of sales price) to $5.00 per plane. This rate held for the production balance of “17,383 of Davis-winged aircraft produced on and after that date.”

Reed

Don,  It looks as if Reed got the jump on me with the cost numbers, but he had used one of the same sources I would have used. that being Allan Blue's book.  In July of 1945, number 8685 rolled out of the southeast hanger door as the final production B-24.  (The success of the  Boeing B-29 Superfortress had made our beloved "Lib" obsolete.)  That must have been a tough day for all those folks!     "They are not forgotten!"
Steven 

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Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

Same problem for me, pictures are too small for 83 yaear old eyes to see!
RHD

Art and Adrian,     Hope this photo is better and opens a tad larger.   I'm still learning and haven't got the knack yet. 

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Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

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Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

Art,        Thought I'd share this late 1941 picture as you had mentioned it (R2800 P&W School)  in post #3 of this thread.  Although this photo is about "packing sub components for shipment to San Diego by truck separate from the airframe," I thought you, and those with an interest in WR, would appreciate it.  Note crates in rear.      Steven 

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Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

  Reed, Steven    I thank both of you for that information. The reason I find it so interesting is because our country was suffering from a depression when the war broke out. To come up with the overall financial cost of the war at a time when people were having a hard enough time feeding themselves. Then to decide where that funding would go to be the most effective. I can’t find words that would describe how great my parent’s generation was.                        Don

ART,   FINALLY, after almost three months, I've found the picture (plus others I've promised to share on line) in a safe place!  In the photo, the trucks are staged on the southern side of the plant in one of the many parking lots for their long hauls some to DT and others to CF.  I am trying to imagine these loaded trucks going through the two lane, winding, up and down roads of SE Michigan. especially thru the Irish Hills (US12).  On this hazy winter day, you can see the expanse of the plant.  There is little left back here except overgrown , crumbled concrete, weeds and lots of memories!   Steven

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Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

Steve, those tractors sure look puny compared to what we see on the road today.    Really couldnt tell from the picture but it seems the one that I had a ride in, had a sleeper bunk.

I dont know if those trucks continued on US112 (now just US 12) or if they split off on US 131 at Mottville, Mi.  Both were routes to Chicago and beyoind. If they continued on US 112, it was a mean turn there at Mottville.  Over the years a goodly number of trucks crashed either coming or going.

Probably wasn't too much of a problem going through all those little burgs along US 112 but when a corner had to be turned, I imagine things got pretty sticky.

                           Art Tait   3rd AirForce

These are fantastic pictures.  Keep them coming.  Any plans to publish an album??

Glenn,    Good Evening!    Yes I have plans when I retire (boxes of clips, articles, notes, photos, etc.)!  Thanks for the compliment on the pictures of which I have many, but unfortunately I always keep them in a "safe place," but then have to remember where the "safe place" is!!!  I shall continue to post appropriate ones.  Over time, what has fascinated me among many things about the B-24 has been the "Homefront Production Folks," which at FO WR meant: engineers, skilled trades, little people, "Rosies," Assemblers, cooks, housekeeping, medical staffs, etc.  Being a manufacturing/assembly person within the same "hallowed grounds" for GM transmissions makes it even more awesome!  To think that my small office is located at the historical spot of the "tax turn" (Henry Ford's way of avoiding taxation in two counties due to the location of the plant) where the Libs took their final ride down the Assembly Line to the tarmac to wait the "ferry crew" is unbelievable.  So if I wax a bit sentimental about the vets, the riveters, the assemblers, etc., it's because their "spirits" permeate this place.  Each time I find something new in the WR facility, I try to relate it back to those years so long ago!        Steven

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Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

Back in August 2000 I had just returned from Austria as a guest in the town where my dad was shot down (in a B-24 H-FO) and the crew captured.  It was a memorable event.  Shortly after returning, I was at the airport in Lancaster, PA when the Collings foundation was in.  A fellow who had built wing sections at Willow Run was there and gave about 8 of us a lesson in assembling B-24 center wings sections.  I wish that had been taped.  What a treat.  THe Collings people gave him a red carpet as well.  A memorable summer.

Glenn, Great post!   Yes, the Collings Foundation does, I believe, a great job.  Having flown in the Witchcraft two years ago, as I have mentioned, it was a thrill since we flew low over FO WR, where she had been built so long ago ( the actual Collings B-24J was a CO product but painted in the B-24H-FO motif of the Witchcraft!  I have included a photo of the  FO WR Center Wing Section of the Assembly line where it is about to mate with the nose and fuselage sections further on.  Note the hydraulic lines.   Steven

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Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

Glenn,         Found another interesting photo!  If you look closely at this photo (magnifying glass might help), Final Assembly Line (FAL) #1 is to the right and FAL #2 is to the left, both of which veer 90 degrees to the right (south) to avoid going into another county, therefore the name "Tax Turn."  My office in the present day GM WR plant is located aout 100 yards before the "Tax Turn" on what was the #1 FINAL ASSEMBLY LINE.  Today, transmission go down a FAL for the military HumVee occupying the same geographic space.  By the way, this photo was takens in the Fall  of '44 making these "J's."  Steven

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Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

Art,       Since you had mentioned the WR Cafeteria and food while you were at WR, thought you'd appreciate this one.  This is the only one I have of the then small cafeteria, although this is only a section of it.    Steven

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Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

Art and Others,    After going through my files, I found this tonight.  Although FO WR was not even close to maximum production or manned up accordingly, the plant had begun to use "portable kitchens" throughout the  expanse of the plant.  These "meals-on-wheels" serviced the shop floor.  Of note in this picture: cases of "Faygo Pop," produced and bottled in Detroit (celebrating its 100th anniversary this year);  the creosole soaked floor blocks which are still in some parts of the present day plant; and in the rear right, an executive on his motorized "scooter-bike."  These were used to traverse the plant and had a "side-car" for guests.     Steven

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Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

Gentlemen and Ladies,     For those of you who "surf," here is a post that I just added to "bailing out," but pertains more directly to FO WR Lib Assembly.  I believe it is pertinent to both.   Steven

Ken and All ,      I have unabashedly used not only the photo attached for my Bio, but also one that I have used before (deployment of life rafts) since, to me, it shows a lot of very clearly delineated  and "different" detail in the assembly process of the FO WR Lib.  If you look closely at the attached photo, it shows the Final Assembly Process (Continuous Process Flow) at Stations 10 thru 12.  What is significant is that at this point the outer wings have not yet been attached.  After Station 14, the four Final Assembly Lines become two and head toward the "tax turn."  In the attached photo the hatch aft of the left seat (pilot) is clearly visible during assembly, and the relative size relationship is apparant.  Ken's comment about access is clearly apparant.  A former Supervisor of mine talked about his father, who had been a B-24 Navigator, I believe,  and as a member of the 14th AAF had to "bail out," during a mission.  Long ago during a discussion, I never questioned it!  However, I am now wondering!  Again, time, circumstances, and combat conditions would definitely determine the course of action.  I offer this photo which you will see again as a good example of "accessibility. "     Steven


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Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

I just read through this for the first time and since there is such an interest in Ford-built B-24Ms I thought you would enjoy this photo. It is my favorite of the B-24M and shows B-24M-16-FO 44-50867.

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Hello Steven, just wanted to say hi and thank you for the great factory pics of the Liberators. Fantastic pictures, they look like they were taken yesterday, so clear and detailed. I put a few pics of my B-24 models on "The Modeling Bench" part of the forum. Really look forward to your posts, and can imagine what it must be like trying to stay focused on your job there, when those GM transmissions suddenly start to look like shiny Ford B-24's! Mark

By the way, this photo was takens in the Fall of '44 making these "J's."

Steven:

That is the BEST photo I have ever seen showing the shape of the "High Hat" top turret. Thanks for posting it.

Ken

Ken Alexander
Son of 1st Lt. Clair B. Alexander Jr.
Pilot, B-24s: 10/12/1944 - 04/24/1945
15th AF, 49th Wing, 461st BG, 764th BS
Torretta Airfield, Cerignola, Italy

Gentlemen,   Thanks for the posts!  Yes, working at the GM WR plant with the FO WR legacy is really exciting! Although it's work, you just "feel" the history and nostalgia. I'm always looking for something artifacts-wise.  In the "oboyle" post, that is a great shot of the "high hat" turret, and I believe the angle of the photo helps to emphasize it.  Also the observation window common on FO WR "M"'s helps for easy recognition.  I've just ordered a book on the WWII graveyards and storage depots for the "war weary" and "over production" A/C's resultant of the end of the war.  I hope to glean a few more insights and/or photos from it.   Steven 

Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

Bill,  I have attached the opening post on another specific thread which has to do with FO WR.  There are many unique things about the facility, and I have attached several of the pictures throughout the site.  Steven

"Those of us who have been hunting, in combat or on a firing range know all too well what it can mean if either a firearm jams, missfires or who knows what else could happen.  At the FO WR Plant, the "gun butt" for  sighting-in and testing all 50 cals. for each A/C was rather unique.  Each A/C upon passing thru the Final Assembly hanger doors would traverse about 1/4 to 1/2  mile of tarmac to a large, yet to be developed, section west of the current day WR Airport where a large, sand-bagged enclosed dirt mound (butt) had been constructed.  A 360 degree rotating turn-table in front of the butt with a "lock down" restraint system would be used to stabilize the A/C  before firing a burst from each platform position.  Once accepted, it would move on to "Compass Rose" and then to its "shakedown" flight (which included toggling "dummy bombs" over Lake Erie) before returning to WR.  At that point, all things being equal, the A/C was turned over to Ferry Command  for deployment to an assigned base.  Early on, these A/C's might have been routed toward a field Mod Center, if specific modifications were required due to their destinations.  As a side note, due to WR's acquired expertise in the area of armament/firearms, the facility was awarded government contracts during the Vietnam Conflict for both a 20mm cannon and the backup for the M-16 ( designated as the M-16A).   Another thread for another site! "    Steven


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Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

For those of you not surfing around, here is a new thread which I have just posted seperately concern another facet of FO WR.   Steven
 
One of the unique pieces of calibration equipment at the FO WR Plant was affectionately called "Compass Rose" here briefly described by Warren Kidder from his book:  Willow Run:  Colossus of American Industry (Library of Congress Catalogue Number: 95-94664).  "A "Compass Rose," used for swinging and calibrating the compass of each bomber was constructed at ground level of non-metallic material.  The only one of its kind in the country, it was 52'2" in diameter, weighed 85 tons and was powered by a 30 hp motor."  It was located due east of the main airport terminal and southeast of the exit of the WR FO hanger doors.  Further on he writes "At a Finishing Station they were camouflaged and took on gasoline and oil.  Their compasses were then calibrated on the "Compass Rose," and every 5th plane had its guns checked at the Gun Butt."  This reference  was from early 1943, and as the production increased and processes improved, the machine guns were inceased to 100%.  (Confer my thread: FO WR 50 Cal Testing Range.)  I have attached a photo of a 09JN44 Lib strapped to the "Compass Rose" for stability.  What also can be seen in this photo are the following:  The newly built WR Airport Terminal;  At the right almost directly behind the starbord tail, you can see the two hanger doors of the Final Assembly.  Just inside these doors are the final fueling stations;  Further to the right are the "exit" doors for A/C requiring major repair.  These are "pushed" out onto the tarmac so they do not impede those A/C's which have made the "tax turn" headed down to the hanger doors.  I have also attached this thread to my: History: Willow Run Liberators thread.  Steven


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Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

The compass rose and gun butt photos are fascinating.

Were the guns bore sighted before the firing test? Since the barrels were often removed for the overseas flight to deployment, I assume they were realigned and tested after they arrived at the depot or base?

With that in mind, here are some surprising charts showing the bullet patterns from the various gun positions on the B-24.

Credit: "Gunner, An Illustrated History of World War II Aircraft Turrets and Gun Positions" by Donald Nijboer

Top of chart:


[image]local://upfiles/9698/7D04EAB8FDF24A1B8C54D9367768C6C9.gif[/image]

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Ken Alexander
Son of 1st Lt. Clair B. Alexander Jr.
Pilot, B-24s: 10/12/1944 - 04/24/1945
15th AF, 49th Wing, 461st BG, 764th BS
Torretta Airfield, Cerignola, Italy

Scatter gun approach?

Bottom of chart:

Credit: "Gunner, An Illustrated History of World War II Aircraft Turrets and Gun Positions" by Donald Nijboer

[image]local://upfiles/9698/ED394885C25B4BB3AC52F13A1AAB283F.gif[/image]

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Ken Alexander
Son of 1st Lt. Clair B. Alexander Jr.
Pilot, B-24s: 10/12/1944 - 04/24/1945
15th AF, 49th Wing, 461st BG, 764th BS
Torretta Airfield, Cerignola, Italy

Ken,  Yes, you are correct, they had been sighted.  As to procedure after the "fly away" to Mod Depots, bases, etc., I am not up on that.  I enjoyed the "gun charts." Attached is another photo of the same Lib entering  the "Compass Rose" prior to strap down for calibration.    Steven

[image]local://upfiles/11777/E106DE61C98848ABB20FE84A356C3A86.jpg[/image]

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Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

quote:

As to making design changes to major parts of the B-24, I am sure that any changes would have had to be proved to be suitable for Consoldiated to agree, and then the fact that all five assembly plants would have been required to change as well....I suspect that it was too big a problem to the Consolidated engineers.

Jim,    Again, thank you!  I've taken some time this evening to reread some parts of Bejamin Kidder's book on the construction of FO WR and the automotive-assembly-line-concept transposed to the aircraft industry.  I focused on the almost astronomical # of engineering changes.  Since these had to go through "an approval process" with the Consolidated Engineers, and with the 5 manufacturing facilities, your opinion makes sense.  (Let me tell you what it is like even today.   An engineering change, i.e., small component change <nothing major> on, let's say, the military H-1: HumVee, for which I am responsible for its final transmission assembly at GM WR, MAY take weeks, if not longer!)  I would be interested in hearing from Ken Alexander, Al Blue or any Site manufacturing folks on this.  The most numerous changes at FO WR were in the areas of: armor plating, nose armament, tail armament, instrumentation and structural modifications to support these afore-mentioned changes.  All in all, it took time and processing, although at the "manufacturing floor levels," things moved rather quickly.    Steven

Over on the B-24 vs. B-17 Thread, there have been several posts on pages 2 and 3 concerning the expediency of "engineering changes" at FO WR.  I have  posted one example here, but there was quite a bit of discussion generated by "fuel gauges" and how "lousey" the design was as compared to Boeing.   Just thought I'd post this in the event that someone with specific interest in FO WR would want to jump over to that site.    Steven 

Best Regards!
Steven P. Puhl
Willow Run Historian  (RET.)  
Home of 8685 Ford B-24 Liberators
Life Member: Yankee Air Museum

I have to speak again. I was not a technical guy, and I relied on my excellent flight engineer to keep the fuel flowing and the engines running!
That said, let me address the changes at Willow Run. I was born and raised in Detroit, and Henry Ford was considered a genius.
He was, as all detroit knew, an anti-semite, and a racist. Never the less, when the war started he offered to do whatever the govt . asked. The way we heard it, he offered to build 24s at a much faster rate than Consolidated could. After several months, he was ridiculed for not meeting the goals he had said he could. His answer was, leave the design alone for more than a few days, ad we'll buld your planes. To a great extent, this was done, and WR did build them fast!! But this partly explains why they were built not as well as they could have been.
Nevertheless, I flew them, and loved them.
Hope this makes some sense to all of you.
RHD
PS this may not be scientific, but it's what we Detroiters believed