Lockedlt. carl e. tisone, usaaf

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2005/01/14 00:47:18 (permalink)
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lt. carl e. tisone, usaaf

Am looking for any information regading the loss of my uncle on may 17, 1943. He was a B17 navigator with the 305th bomb group, 364th squadron. He may have been on one of the following aircraft with tail number 42-5219, 42-29663 or 42-29745. I believe that the plane was lost in the English Channel. A memorial marker in a cemetary in Cambridge, England lists his name but his body was never recovered. He is officially listed as FOD. Any information will be sincerely appreciated.
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    vic-513
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    RE: lt. carl e. tisone, usaaf 2005/01/14 07:47:46 (permalink)
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    2Lt Carl E. Tisone is listed as the bombardier on 42-29663 on 17 May 1943. The pilot was Lt. John W. Tuttle. The AC crashed at Lorient, France due to German fighters with 4 KIA, 6 POWs and 1 Evadee. The MACR 15555 covers this AC and crew. You can get a copy by contacting Lynn.Gamma@MAXWELL.AF.MIL. I don't have a crew list.

    Vic Walzel, brother of 1st Lt Leland H. Walzel, bombardier with the 93rd Bomb Group, 330th Squadron. KIA 6 March 1944 on his 25th mission.
    www.lelandwalzel.150m.com
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    ron_R
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    RE: lt. carl e. tisone, usaaf 2005/01/14 11:46:17 (permalink)
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    P 1lt Donald W Tuttle
    CP 2lt James O Aubele
    N 2lt Charles J Spear
    B 2lt Carl E Tisone KIA
    E t/sgt Daniel E Gruhlke KIA
    RO t/sgt John H Gardner
    BGT s/sgt Harold E Tilbury
    LWG s/sgt Alexander Schaeffer KIA
    RWG s/sgt John D Lyons KIA
    PH sgt Ralph L Greenfield
    TG s/sgt Ed C Seaborn
    #3
    Dave T
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    RE: lt. carl e. tisone, usaaf 2005/01/14 12:58:58 (permalink)
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    Both Vic and Ron show Tisone as a bombardier. However, I do not have him on my list of 53k bombardier graduates. Doesn't mean he is not one, just that he is not on the list.

    I do have Spear graduating from the bombardier school at Williams Field class 42-12.

    I can't explain the difference in data. The MACR hopefully would clear things up. And Tisone's personel records would state which schools he attended.

    Please keep me informed as I have a site dedicated to bombardiers and I am tracking info on each man.

    Dave
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    vic-513
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    RE: lt. carl e. tisone, usaaf 2005/01/14 16:52:59 (permalink)
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    Hi Dave,

    The information I passed on about Lt. Tisone came from Project Bits and Pieces. There was very sketchy information at best. Usually there is a complete crew list in the Mighty Eighth Chronology Supplement but in this case the only mention is of Tisone and another of the crew being KIA. No mention of the AC, MACR # or anything else. Tisone is listed as a bombardier in the Mighty Eighth Roll of Honor. The pilot's name is John W. Tuttle in my reference and Donald W. Tuttle in Ron's, so quite obviously these discrepancies are further proof that errors are made all the time and the best we can do is take things with a grain of salt and hope they are correct. Joe's assumption that Tisone was a navigator may be correct after all.

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    RE: lt. carl e. tisone, usaaf 2005/01/14 22:46:20 (permalink)
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    Ron:
    I have a photo of a B17 (tail number:19083) in flight over New Mexico.
    This photo was taken by my uncle, Lt. Carl E. Tisone. On the back is written by him '"The bombarier sits in the glass part of the nose. My "office" is right behind him."'
    Am I wrong to belive (as was always told me by my mother) that Cral was indeed a navigator?
    Thank you for your information.
    Joe Sebbio
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    vic-513
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    RE: lt. carl e. tisone, usaaf 2005/01/14 22:56:13 (permalink)
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    Joe,

    Some men were rated for both navigator and bombardier duty. I would think that Dave would show him in his bombardier school records if he had that rating. I prefer to think this is a typo on the two men but that is merely conjecture on my part. The inscription on the picture seems to bear out that he was a navigator.

    Vic Walzel, brother of 1st Lt Leland H. Walzel, bombardier with the 93rd Bomb Group, 330th Squadron. KIA 6 March 1944 on his 25th mission.
    www.lelandwalzel.150m.com
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    RE: lt. carl e. tisone, usaaf 2005/01/14 22:56:33 (permalink)
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    Vic:
    Thanks very much for the information on my uncle Lt. Carl E. Tisone.
    Since I was very young Carls fate was always told to me as being lost in the English Channel.
    I am now wondering if the circumstances of his death were known all along but the story was told differently by whomever to spare my grandparents as they were devastated.
    Even with all of the time that has passed and the fact that I never knew him, I was shocked by your message to finally learn of his fate.
    I will try to obatin the MARC report.

    Joe Sebbio
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    dakota
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    RE: lt. carl e. tisone, usaaf 2005/01/15 07:13:04 (permalink)
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    Of the 3 aircraft listed B.17F-70-BO. S/No.42-29745 appears to be the only one which crashed in the English Channel.
    This aircraft was on 8AF Mission No. 58 dated 17 May 43 target Lorient, Port & U-Boat Base. 100 aircraft were despatched, 80 bombed and 4 MIA. 42-29745 was shot down by e/a and crashed in the Channel. Pilot Chine.
    The history of this aircraft according to Freeman was :
    Del Denver 12 Feb 1943, then to Salina 2 Mar 1943, assigned to 264BS/305BG (WF-M) Chelveston on 16 Apr 1943 MIA 17 May 1943.

    Hope this helps
    dakota
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    dakota
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    RE: lt. carl e. tisone, usaaf 2005/01/15 07:17:46 (permalink)
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    The MACR for 42-29745 is MACR15545
    dakota
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    ron_R
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    RE: lt. carl e. tisone, usaaf 2005/01/15 10:32:57 (permalink)
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    the 305BG lost 4 planes on 17 may 1943

    the 42-5063 was also crashed in to the sea near lorient

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    RE: lt. carl e. tisone, usaaf 2005/01/15 17:44:59 (permalink)
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    Dakota,
    Thanks for the information regarding my uncle, Lt. Carl E. Tisone, USAAF. The search to discover his actual fate has taken a few turns.
    The aircraft tail number has been reported as 42-29663 and 42-29745.
    I suppose that I will need to request MARC reports 15545 and 15555.
    The enormity of WW2 was such that errors in reporting lost airmen was most likely common place.
    All of the members of the armyairforces site have been very helpful and I am sure that they as well as you are sincere in giving the information that each has at his disposal.

    Joe Sebbio
    post edited by joemars398 - 2005/01/15 17:53:16
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