Dave ...
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WWII US Officer Identification (Southern England 1944)
I am trying to identify the US officer in the attached UK Civil Defence group photo (and enlargement) from 1944, taken in Hampshire, and would welcome any assistance. The cap badge is distinctive and seems to suggest a USAAF officer, with other details pointing to the rank of Brigadier ? One possibility might be the 438th Troop Carrier Group, arising from the proximity of the scene location - Steventon near Basingstoke - which is less than 15 miles from Greenham Common, the nearest US HQ where the 438th was located at the time ? The interest arises from my contact with the Civil Defence Association ( www.civildefenceassociation.org.uk), and the possibility of a journal article on the photo, and so I am presently trying to identify the various senior officers present. It has been suggested that the presence of a US officer may have been related to Operation Overlord ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Overlord). TIA. Regards, Dave (UK). PS My personal interest is family-oriented, in that the William Asbury in the photo is my grandfather (Deputy Regional Commissioner for the Southern Region, 1942-45), and the photo was passed to me about 10 years ago without any further information after my Uncle died (Asbury's son, an RAF Flight Sergeant during WWII).
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jtennet
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Re:WWII US Officer Identification (Southern England 1944)
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Hi Dave, This officer is not USAAF. The crossed rifles indicate infantry and the cap badge is a standard US Officer's badge. His rank would be identified by the shoulder insignia which are not visible. There was no rank of Brigadier per se but there was Brigadier General or One Star General. That is not a star on his shoulder but something rather larger. I'm guessing at Captain but I could be way off there. You could well be right about the overlord connection. Hope this helps, Jim Tennet (Curator) Ridgewell Airfield Commemorative Association http://www.381st.com/ Dave ... I am trying to identify the US officer in the attached UK Civil Defence group photo (and enlargement) from 1944, taken in Hampshire, and would welcome any assistance. The cap badge is distinctive and seems to suggest a USAAF officer, with other details pointing to the rank of Brigadier ? One possibility might be the 438th Troop Carrier Group, arising from the proximity of the scene location - Steventon near Basingstoke - which is less than 15 miles from Greenham Common, the nearest US HQ where the 438th was located at the time ? The interest arises from my contact with the Civil Defence Association (www.civildefenceassociation.org.uk), and the possibility of a journal article on the photo, and so I am presently trying to identify the various senior officers present. It has been suggested that the presence of a US officer may have been related to Operation Overlord (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Overlord). TIA. Regards, Dave (UK). PS My personal interest is family-oriented, in that the William Asbury in the photo is my grandfather (Deputy Regional Commissioner for the Southern Region, 1942-45), and the photo was passed to me about 10 years ago without any further information after my Uncle died (Asbury's son, an RAF Flight Sergeant during WWII).
Jim Tennet (Curator and Chairman) Ridgewell Airfield Commemorative Association 381st Bomb Group Memorial Association. Life Time Member http://www.381st.com/
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Dave ...
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Re:WWII US Officer Identification (Southern England 1944)
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Jim - many thanks, that seems like a very useful elimination. Do you know what part of the corresponding US army command might have been associated in some way with WWII Civil Defence for Southern England ? Dave.
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jtennet
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Re:WWII US Officer Identification (Southern England 1944)
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Should also have said that if the shoulder insignia was of the sewn on cloth variety and not metal, then his rank could have been almost any commissioned officer other than General. If metal, I reckon, from that picture, he could have been Captain, Major, Lieutenant Colonel or possibly Colonel. It would be interesting if we could make out the ribbons as that might give some idea as to his previous experience. Jim
Jim Tennet (Curator and Chairman) Ridgewell Airfield Commemorative Association 381st Bomb Group Memorial Association. Life Time Member http://www.381st.com/
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jtennet
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Re:WWII US Officer Identification (Southern England 1944)
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Afraid not Dave, My expertise is generally limited to the USAAF, 381st Bomb Group in particular but, as we are involved in re-enactment, we gather other bits of information as we go along. My Son frequently dresses as infantry and I have many books on the subject but little related actual units in the UK (Other than Airforce). You must come and see us sometime. Dave ... Jim - many thanks, that seems like a very useful elimination. Do you know what part of the corresponding US army command might have been associated in some way with WWII Civil Defence for Southern England ? Dave.
Jim Tennet (Curator and Chairman) Ridgewell Airfield Commemorative Association 381st Bomb Group Memorial Association. Life Time Member http://www.381st.com/
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cody1947
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Re:WWII US Officer Identification (Southern England 1944)
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I blew up the photo and tried to determine the rank. I think it is more rounded indicating Major or Lt Col. This officer appears to be in his fifties and if he was a career officer he should have been in WWI but service ribbons are few and if he was a junior officer in WWI he didn't seem to get around much. I saw a picture of Eisenhower who made Captain in 1917 during WWI but he never saw combat and he had more ribbons. I believe this Officer has all the markigs of a Reserve or National Guard Commander activated for the War effort. I think his combat experience was little to known. He may have been some kind of a liaison with the Civil Defense readiness.
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jtennet
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Re:WWII US Officer Identification (Southern England 1944)
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I totally agree with you Cody but I wouldn't like to be committal on the insignia. I think it's very difficult to make anything out. Does your ID mean you were born in '47? If so, you are a whole year older than me. I'm known here as the Grumpy Old Man and it is so nice to come across somebody even older. LOL. cody1947 I blew up the photo and tried to determine the rank. I think it is more rounded indicating Major or Lt Col. This officer appears to be in his fifties and if he was a career officer he should have been in WWI but service ribbons are few and if he was a junior officer in WWI he didn't seem to get around much. I saw a picture of Eisenhower who made Captain in 1917 during WWI but he never saw combat and he had more ribbons. I believe this Officer has all the markigs of a Reserve or National Guard Commander activated for the War effort. I think his combat experience was little to known. He may have been some kind of a liaison with the Civil Defense readiness.
Jim Tennet (Curator and Chairman) Ridgewell Airfield Commemorative Association 381st Bomb Group Memorial Association. Life Time Member http://www.381st.com/
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Dave ...
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Re:WWII US Officer Identification (Southern England 1944)
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Many thanks for the various comments. A contact elsewhere has since suggested the possibility that "... the US Army officer was attached to No 6 Region as the liaison man between Southern Region and Eisenhower's staff, initially in London then, as D-Day approached, at Southwick House (now HMS Dryad) outside Portsmouth". So I'll direct my enquiries accordingly and post again if anything useful materialises. Regards, Dave.
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jtennet
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Re:WWII US Officer Identification (Southern England 1944)
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Let us know what happens Dave.
Jim Tennet (Curator and Chairman) Ridgewell Airfield Commemorative Association 381st Bomb Group Memorial Association. Life Time Member http://www.381st.com/
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Dave ...
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Philgrin
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Re:WWII US Officer Identification (Southern England 1944)
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Since the officer in the photo was Infantry I checked and found out that the 3rd Battalion of the 47th Infantry Regiment of the 9th Infantry Division was in Basingstoke and just to the west at Oakridge Farm in February 1944. Might try to see if you can find one of their vets associations. Good luck in your search.
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Philgrin
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Re:WWII US Officer Identification (Southern England 1944)
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Just found another Infantry unit that was in the area, this time in December 1944, the 273rd Infantry Regiment of the 69th Infantry Division was at Oakridge Farm west of Basingstoke.
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Dave ...
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Ajer
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The Basingstoke Gazette plan to do a follow up article about Steventon Manor on the 22nd November 2010 and have asked me for information about my father, Frederick John Ridley who is sitting in the front row 5 places in from the right of the picture. He was a member of a unit of the Civil Defence but that's as much as I know apart from the fact that he was based in London throughout the blitz, then moved to Steventon Manor, attending Southampton and Portsmouth when they were being bombed day and night by the Germans. I have only recently discovered there may have been more to Steventon Manor than at first appears to be the case and in fact it may have been related to planning or perhaps the aftermath of D-Day, maybe if things had not had gone as planned but I am only guessing here. It would seem to fit in with why there were both British and American service personnel based in the same facility. My late father actually met and later married my mother who was in service as Ladies maid to the Lady of the Manor who still occupied part of the building at that time. Its quite sometime to know that many of the people in this photo probably attended their wedding reception, I know this because my father referred to them when celebrating his golden wedding anniversary to my mother at Steventon Church some years ago. Steventon is where Jane Austin was born and spent her childhood, her father was Rector of the Steventon Church which is over 800 years old and is next to the manor. Both my parents ashes are interred in the grounds of the church, I am extremely proud of both my parents and the part they played in fighting for the freedoms we take for granted nowadays.
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Dave ...
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