Gents,
I'll attach a realtime document, Mar2, 1942 - self explanatory.
Cheers, Wynnum.

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Thought I'd throw this in for anyone interested.
Note the Effective Date of this order.

Bob

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Scott,

Although my discharge papers read otherwise, in my mind I joined and was discharged from the Army Air Corps.

Bill Runnels
Bombardier(B-17)
HELL'S ANGELS
303RDBG, 360THBS
www.geocities.com/billrunnels

Warbirder


Skybear - No offense, but there was never an Army Air Force. Your entry dates and designations I can agree with, except for THE ARMY AIR FORCE. There was only the ARMY AIR FORCES. I know it's a big deal over nothing, but I read that Chuchhill said, "The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug."

Your absolutely correct, a bad habit from the long past.
It is 'Forces', plural, when referring to the collective organization.

Bob

I'm sorry gentelmen, I did not mean to poke a stick in the hornet's nest. I did find his "Report of Separation". The large print on the top with an eagle seal says "Army of the United States". Oranizition, 73rd Fighter Squadron, the only mention of the 318th FG is in the Decorations and citations box.  He was inducted 29 Sept 42 and discharged 30 Oct 45. Nowhere on this document does it say Air Corps. But the place of separation is; AAF Separation Base Sioux City Iowa. Thank you very much, it looks like USAAF.  Hugh

Bar Flies insignia 73FS 318FG 7AAF

No need to apologize Hugh, these 'discussions' are what we live for.

Bob

Bob Gilbert


From the perspective of usage and based on my personal official documents dated '43, '44 and '45 the term Air Corps was preferred.  Most are signed Joe Doe, Ist Lt., Air Corps.  Higher up authorities would indicate Army Air Forces in referring to an organization.

This reflects also what I've seen in documents.  Air Corps seemed to be used in reference to the "person," such as in their enlistment or commission status.  Same with saying one was Reserves, National Guard, Quartermaster Corps, Infantry, Artillery, Calvary, etc. 

Army Air Forces, AAF, was used in reference to "units."

So if one were honoring the person for what they were, I'd use Air Corps.  If I were honoring the person in reference to their final unit assignment, then I'd use AAF.

Kevin Anderson

[peeve]
Cavalry
[/peeve]

Under for what's it's worth - until the day that my dad died, he stated that he flew in the United States Air Force. When he passed away, we put on his headstone, USAAF.

Ron Hodges
Son of Tech. Sgt. Raymond Hodges
702nd Bomb Squadron
445th Bomb Group
8th Air Force

When I enlisted in December 1941, right after Pearl Harbor it was in the Army Air Corps. When I was commissioned a  2nd Lt in Dec 1942. it was ORC, not AUS.

Jules Horowitz, B-17 pilot, 99th BG, 50 missions/sorties
My tour was from 7/19/43-2/13/44

For what it's worth, I think SKYBEAR's first reply best covers the situation.

In the Marine Corps, I was taught the last order received was the first order obeyed.

proud vet-3rd of 4 generations

I couldn't resist....

On dad's discharge certificate, which is an U.S. Army document, he was separated on 2Feb46 from the Separation Center, Camp Atterbury, IN (an Infantry Trng facility)....not from the Atterbury AAF which was within 30-miles of the Army Camp.  His discharge certificate is signed by a Major, AC.

On the back of this document is the Record/Rpt of Separation and in 'Arm or Service' is listed 'AC'...under Component is listed, 'AUS'.  And this side of the document is signed by a Captain, AC. 

Larry

Son of Cpl Charles Caldwell, Engineer Crewman, USAAF Crash Boat P-258, Rey Island, Panama (Pacific side)

I could see both the signing Major and the Crash Boat command being slotted under the Air Corps office.   What does the chain of command look like for the crash boats?

Scott Burris, 381st BGMA LTM
ArmyAirForces.com

My father served in the Army Air Corp from 1940 until 1945. He is his Honorable Discharge. 

It is from a AAF Base, you can read the rest. 

Attached Image(s)

Sincerely yours,
PA.Dutchman

Son of T/Sgt. Ray A. Heilman, JR.
11 TH Field Artillery 1937-1940
Schofield Barracks
7 TH AAC 11 BGH 42 Sq.1940-45
Hickam Survivor 12/7/1941
AAC Armorer (P) 911
P.U.Citation1942

Here is a document written in 1941 using both terms. I had thought that "Corps" refered to the whole organization while "Forces" refered to the combat units.

Mike

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Let's close out further speculation in this thread.

It's clear that many in the service liked the Air Corps name, and may have preferred it.  However, after March 1942 the Air Corps existed only as a subordinate element of the Army Air Forces where it organized training and support commands.  The Office, Chief of Air Corps was abolished and these components reported to the Chief of the Army Air Forces¹.  

I think we need to also recognize that the service went from some some 21,300 personnel in 1939 to a peak of 2,411,000 in March 1944².  That's in addition to employing up to 422,000 civilians³.   It required a lot of reorganization and change to accommodate this amazing growth.

I don't suspect that sending out memos on how personnel were to sign official documents was very high on the priority list.

What is clear that the confusion was done away with by the National Security Act of 1947.  

----

¹ The Army Air Forces in World War II: VI Men and Planes, edit by Craven and Cate, p. 31.

^{2, 3}  Ibid, p 32

Scott Burris, 381st BGMA LTM
ArmyAirForces.com

Scott,


     I agree that we've pretty much beaten this horse to death.  We agree that the AC existed in some form until 1947.  Its just trying to figure out exactly what that form was.  The fact that the Air Force refers to the AC as a "Combatant" arm indicates to me that there was more than just training or paperwork involved.  I emailed the Historical Studies office once to try to get a detailed answer and got the familiar line we've all heard:

Between March 9, 1942 and Sept 18, 1947, the Army Air Corps continued to exist as a combatant arm, and personnel of the Army Air Forces were still assigned to the Army Air Corps.

    I don't really know why this seems like such a big deal to so many.  I'm probably influenced by my Dad.  If you tell him he was not in the Air Corp, he gets really mad.

Steve G 

 

 

    

Steve,

I have a few ex-Marine Corps buddies that get hopping mad when
reminded that the Corps is part of the U.S. Navy, but this doesn't change
the fact that it is a subordinate unit of the Department of the Navy.

Bob

(Sorry Scott but I just had to through that in)

They seem to be repeating a quote on their web site: 

    The Army Air Corps became a subordinate element of the Army Air Forces June 20, 1941. Since the Army Air Corps had been established by statute in 1926, its disestablishment required an act of Congress, which did not take place until 1947. Between March 9, 1942 and Sept 18, 1947, the Army Air Corps continued to exist as a combatant arm, and personnel of the Army Air Forces were still assigned to the Army Air Corps.  -Air Force Magazine, May 2002, pg. 37.

The first part does raise a good point, what exists as a statute and what the operational truth is.  I also think also the wording of the quote could lead to misinterpretation, "...and personnel of the Army Air Forces were still assigned to the Army Air Corps."   Which personnel?

Going back to Craven & Cate this para might help somewhat.

    The Air Corps, after March 1942, continued to the the permanent statutory organization of the air arm, and the thus the principal component of the Army Air Forces.  But the Office, Chief of Air Corps and the Air Force Combat Command were both abolished, their functions being assumed by AAF Headquarters.  The dissolution of AFCC had been foretold soon after the outbreak of hostilities by developments which robbed it of any true function.  Defense commands on the east and west coasts had been activated as theaters of operations, and the First and Fourth Air Forces had been assigned, respectively, to their control.  Simultaneously, the Second and Third Air Forces found themselves committed primarily to a mission of training that was the concern of OCAC rather than of AFCC.  The disbandment of the latter command eliminated at last the dual structure which had been a source of continuing confusion in the organization of the arm since 1935.  pp 31 & 32

Not to mention what it's doing to us in 2008 

Scott Burris, 381st BGMA LTM
ArmyAirForces.com

Bob,

Doesn't bother me, I'm a Navy guy 

But, yes some people get really emotionally invested in Air Corps versus Army Air Forces thing.  

I completely understand it for the vets themselves.  They can call themselves whatever they want as far as I'm concerned.  For the descendants it's just plane (bad pun alert) confusing.

It's good to hash it out every now and then.

Scott Burris, 381st BGMA LTM
ArmyAirForces.com