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This B-17 named 5 Grand

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Andy m
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2008/04/09 14:52:51 (permalink)
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This B-17 named 5 Grand

I was looking through the photo albums and came across this one.
 
http://forum.armyairforces.com/upfiles.aspx/12233/asppg_Da836198408.jpg
 
The answer may be obvious but I'll ask anyway.  Is this the same 5,000th B-17 to roll off the assemble line that was signed by the Boeing emploees?  It looks as though it has signatures on it.
 
Just wondering.  Thanks for the help.
 
Regards,
 
Andy

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    Lucky Partners
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    RE: This B-17 named 5 Grand 2008/04/09 18:10:16 (permalink)
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    Andy,

    Yes, that is the famous '5 Grand'.  Serial number 43-37716, flew 78 missions with the 96th Bomb Group.  Survived the war and ended up in Kingman, sold for scrap.

    Hal
     
     
    Andy here is a link to a site with a number of pictures of 5 Grand.  Be careful, the site is loaded with pop up ads. 
    http://fivegrand.freehomepage.com/aircraft.html
     
    ramc181
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    RE: This B-17 named 5 Grand 2008/04/09 20:36:46 (permalink)
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    Nice site for photos, as long as you have a good pop-up blocker. ;)
     
    I'm not convinced that 5 Grand flew to Shannon for modifications though.... as Shannon is in Eire, not Northern Ireland.
     
    TTFN,
    Paul

    Paul Bellamy 

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    Andy m
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    RE: This B-17 named 5 Grand 2008/04/10 09:54:07 (permalink)
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    Thanks for the help Hal!!  The pictures are amazing.  I now have a new background for my desktop. lol
     
    Too bad that it was sold for scrap.  Having servived the war and being signed by Boeing emploees, it would have made a beautiful museum piece.
     
    Thanks again!
     
    Andy
    Anthony J. Mireles
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    RE: This B-17 named 5 Grand 2008/04/12 12:03:16 (permalink)
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    A good article about this B-17G appeared in the June 1978 (Vol.8/No.3) issue of WINGS Magazine (Aero Publishers, Inc.).  Lots of great photos. 
     
    TonyM.
    johnmccormack
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    RE: This B-17 named 5 Grand 2008/04/12 15:01:42 (permalink)
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    Andy,

    I noticed your "5 GRAND" B-17.  Another tid-bit for you is that there was a "5 GRAND" B-24J built also.  It was photographed at Gioia del Colle on or about 11 Dec 44.  The A/C had crashed in the island of Vis.  It was supposedly damaged beyond repair but the mechanics of 41st Air Depot Repair Squadron got it repaired and it was flown out.  Where it went after that, or what became of it, I have no idea.

    John McCormack
    Son in law of Cpl Lewis Earle Reid
    41st Air Depot Repair Squadron.
    post edited by johnmccormack - 2008/04/13 10:29:33
    jhor9
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    RE: This B-17 named 5 Grand 2008/04/14 21:20:55 (permalink)
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    Andy,
    When I signed for a new B17 at Salina,KS it also had some signitures with messages, maybe not as much as  you imply as on 5 Grand.

    Jules Horowitz, B-17 pilot, 99th BG, 50 missions/sorties
    My tour was from 7/19/43-2/13/44
    ng19delta
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    RE: This B-17 named 5 Grand 2008/04/14 22:27:22 (permalink)
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    I heard there was some issue over  B-17 "5 Grand" which ended up in a pissing match between a couple people high up in USAAF, and resuted in the aircraft being scrapped. I remember reading something about that, but don't remember where, when or why.

    Just a shame that it came to that.

    RR
    Andy m
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    RE: This B-17 named 5 Grand 2008/04/15 08:15:26 (permalink)
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    Thanks for the added info guys!  Pretty cool picture of the B-24J John, thanks for sharing.  I didn't know that a B24 was signed as well.  I only asked because I have a book on bombers of WW2 and there was a picture of a B-17 that was signed by the Boeing employees, was just wondering if they were the same A/C.  It's a shame that a picture of the B-24 wasn't included in that same book.
     
    Thanks again,
     
    Andy
    jj463rd
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    RE: This B-17 named 5 Grand 2008/04/15 10:11:41 (permalink)
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    My mom signed 5 grand.She was a riviter and worked on the Dorsal fin in a Tacoma WA subcontractor plant.
    Here is my mom here.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHyIuRqXrVo
    seekerJay
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    RE: This B-17 named 5 Grand 2008/04/18 13:04:57 (permalink)
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    How proud you must be, jj463rd! And it's great that you still have film of her.

    Andy m: May I have permission to use your photo? I'm posting things on Ancient Faces that might be meaningful to researchers, but not accessible to them. If it's okay, I'll post whatever citation you tell me. If it's not okay, that's okay, too.

    Is the airman a relative?

    Thanks for your consideration, Julia
    WillowRun
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    RE: This B-17 named 5 Grand 2008/04/18 21:22:40 (permalink)
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    John,  Here's a quick Post from another Thread with a link to a short actual news video on the Lib which you mentioned.  Best Regards!  Steven


    Some of you may already be familiar with the Site: archive.org, but I had never surfed on it before.  As is my custom, I plugged in "B-24 Liberator" into the search and came up with this short news video.  A bit grainy, but still a "short piece of history."  Best Regards!  Steven

    http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=b-24%20liberator

     
    Best Regards!
    Steven P. Puhl
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    Bill Larkins
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    RE: This B-17 named 5 Grand 2008/04/20 10:51:07 (permalink)
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    I thought I posted two photos last night but they are not here so I will try  this one again as a test. This is 5-Grand at Kingman on Feb 7, 1947.
    Bill Larkins
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    RE: This B-17 named 5 Grand 2008/04/20 10:55:38 (permalink)
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    That seemed to work better!  Now to the important part - the names on 5-Grand. I have never seen anything mentioned about AAF personnel names on the plane, only Boeing workers. Perhaphs this has gone unnoticed? Here is a crop of a portion of a full view and on a larger resolution scan I can read Clayton Bossard, Greenwood Lake NJ; 494 BomB Gp.H.; CPL John A. Colamer; T/Sgt T. M. Holden, Baltimore, MD; and Lt. R. W. Eldredge.
    Yunch
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    RE: This B-17 named 5 Grand 2008/04/20 15:00:16 (permalink)
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    Bill,
    The important part of the signatures was a recognition of the people that constructed the plane not those that flew in it after. It was their small way of saying, hey guys, I helped build this for you, good luck and God speed. My guess is that one GI wanted his name to be posted for posterity and a few others followed.
    BJ Sassey sent me a photo of a 5 Grand B-24 that his crew flew to Italy and that mother was obliterated with workers signatures. God Bless em all, ( and those that flew in it). BJ, hope you are well Buddy.

    Fair Winds and Following Seas,   John
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    WillowRun
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    RE: This B-17 named 5 Grand 2008/04/20 20:50:15 (permalink)
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    In August of 2004, we had the pleasure of hosting a tour at the GM WR, formerly FO WR, for a former "Rosie" who had worked at the Facility from February 1943 thru June of 1945.  She worked on the center wing horizontal.  In our discussions and interviews, she mentioned how she would carefully "etch her initials" into the skin on the underside (she couldn't remember exactly where) as a "good luck" gesture for the "boys who flew 'em" as she said.  Recently I retold the story to a structural engineer who was touring the facility, and he wondered how it passed Inspection. Who knows, maybe it couldn't be seen.  She also mentioned that in the spring of '45, rumors were rampant in the plant about some secret weapon that "might end the war."   Another post!  I thought that the signatures on both the Fort and Lib were great!  Best Regards!   Steven

     
    Best Regards!
    Steven P. Puhl
    Ford Willow Run B-24 Bomber Plant (FO) Historian
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    WillowRun
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    RE: This B-17 named 5 Grand 2008/04/20 21:11:46 (permalink)
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    Although not nearly as famous as either the Boeing B-17 "5 GRAND" or the CO B-24J "V Grand," FO WR had its own "signing" as the last B-24M rolled out of the hangar door on 28JN45.  If you look closely, you can see some of the signatures and a young lady and several men signing the fuselage.  Best Regards!  Steven 

     
    Best Regards!
    Steven P. Puhl
    Ford Willow Run B-24 Bomber Plant (FO) Historian
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    Al Blue
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    RE: This B-17 named 5 Grand 2008/04/25 08:42:19 (permalink)
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    Andy - The 5000th B-24 from San Diego (V Grand) was 44-41054. It was delivered on 21 June 1944. As I recall it made two emergency landings on the island of Vis.
     
    Al Blue
    Andy m
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    RE: This B-17 named 5 Grand 2008/04/25 13:43:50 (permalink)
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    Thanks for the additional info!  Very interesting.  It's still very sad that 5000 Grand was scrapped (in my opinion ANY of these A?C).  I still say it would have made an excellant museum piece.
     
    SeekerJay -
     
    It's not a picture that belongs to me.  I can't think of where I got it from, probably off the internet somewhere while surfing.  Sorry I can't be of more help.
     
    Regards,
     
    Andy
    WillowRun
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    RE: This B-17 named 5 Grand 2008/04/28 20:50:27 (permalink)
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    Andy,  If you every get the opportunity, pick up a copy of Bill Larkins' book: Surplus WWII U.S. Aircraft  (BAC Publishers, 2005, paperack).  For those of us "in love" with the classic A/C's of WWII, it will bring not only nostalgic moments, but also an "historical tear" to your eyes.  Bill did a great job!  Anyway, on page 89 are two great photos of "5 Grand" as it awaits its inevitable rendezvous with the smelting  furnace.  Also what interested me was on page 96, the B-24J-190-CO, 44-40973, The Dragon and His Tail, which had been the "nose art" motif of the Collings Foundation A/C prior to the repaint as Witchcraft.   It was "one of the last planes to be scrapped at Kingman, Arizona, and requests to save it failed."  With its unique painting along the entire length of the fuselage, it stood as a final sentinel over the myriad of stripped A/C's before becoming furnace fodder.  (I have attached her final portrait.)  Keep in mind that at this point in post-war America, industy was getting kick-started" requiring a lot of steel, aluminum, brass, copper, rubber etc.  Today, in hindsight, yes, it would have been great to have some of these birds around, but rebuilding peacetime industry, and the Vets beginning a new life was the important focus.  Best  Regards!  Steven


     
    Best Regards!
    Steven P. Puhl
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