Trying to find info on P-38 #42-67100 .  MACR #1954 on 1/11/44 55th group.  Trying to determine if this is the plane that collided with my dad's B-17 on a 99BG 346Sqdn bombing mission against Athens, Greece.
Chuck

A3/503/173ABN NAM 68-69
"Death From Above"

Hi Chuck,
 
The MACR 01954 refers to the loss of Lt. Harbert over Holland on the 11th January 1944.  This isn't the P-38 that would have collided with your Father's B-17.
 
I wish you well and best of luck in your search for the P-38 and it's Group/Pilot.
 
Regards,
 
Shabby
www.55th.org
www.station131.co.uk

Chuck....I found a 2nd Lt Lovell, Willaim A 0-885238  1st FG , 94th FS, who was killed on 11 Jan 44, in the abmc website...    www.abmc.org   and the individual squadrons of those Fighter Groups.
 
The 1st FG was one of three P-38 FGs flying escort for the 15th AAF Bombers.
 
I checked the other two FGs....14th and 82nd....with no losses on 11 Jan 44.
 
1st Fighter Association Officers (2006-08)

President: Maj Gen (ret) Bill "Frito" Lay (1st Wing/CC, 27th)
Vice President:  Jim "Raquet" Hardenbrook (27th, 71st)
Secretary/Treasurer:  Pete "Pistola" Marty (1st Ops Group/CC, 27th)

Contact:
1st Fighter Association
107 Bear Creek Crossing
Hampton, VA 23669-2009

Email:  1stfighter@cox.net

Website:  http://www.1stfighter.com 
Webmaster:     Pete "Toes" Bartos (71st)

2007 Reunion:  Reno, Nevada and the September Reno Air Races. September 12-16, 2007.

FOR 1st Fighter WWII History Queries: Email:  firstfighter@comcast.net

A suggestion.....Check the 1st Fighter History Queries above.....email    firstfighter@comcast.net
 
There is no guarantee that this is the pilot, as only the persons buried in an overseas cemetery are listed, due to some famiilies request that the remains be sent to the US for local internment.
 
Jim :-)

James S. Peters Sr. T/Sgt
B-17 Flt Engr, 27 missions
99 BG, 348BS, 5th Wing, 15th AAF
Tortorella, (Foggia#2), Italy
My Tour was from 12/03/44-06/19/45
M/Sgt USAF (Retired)

Chuck,

Supporting Jim Peters' response, attachment was extracted from http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.geocities.com/amyjo1.geo/vichi.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.geocities.com/amyjo1.geo/1stbios.html&h=281&w=403&sz=17&hl=en&start=101&tbnid=ClcTMDJnt2Kc4M:&tbnh=86&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2B%2522william%2BLovell%2B%2522%26start%3D100%26as_st%3Dy%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26ie%3DUTF-8 ; could have been but place of loss (Tunisia) and your mention of Athens, Greece are not a match and there is no mention at attachment of Lt. Lovell's loss as having been the result of a collision but rather as a result of enemy action.

Good luck in your search.

Andy

[image]local://upfiles/10103/B0EEE83FEBDA4FD498F20B5396D84ABE.jpg[/image]

Attached Image(s)

42-67100  P-38H-5-LO 
Harbert, William E., 2nd.Lt.(O-743332). /Missing 
338th Fighter Sqd 55th Fighter Gp 8AF 
11 Jan 1944   MACR #1954
Mission to Germany
 
Terry T.
 

Terry...The 99th BG was in the 15th AAF.
 
The P-38 would have been in one of the 15th AAF Escort Fighter Groups.   (1st, 14th or 82nd FG)
 
The best guess (so far)... is the one I posted....Lt Lovell... 1st FG,... 94th FS.
 
Jim :-)

James S. Peters Sr. T/Sgt
B-17 Flt Engr, 27 missions
99 BG, 348BS, 5th Wing, 15th AAF
Tortorella, (Foggia#2), Italy
My Tour was from 12/03/44-06/19/45
M/Sgt USAF (Retired)

Trying to find info on P-38 #42-67100 . MACR #1954 on 1/11/44 55th group

 
JP:
My posting was in regard to the question by SKEY regarding
P-38 42-67100...
 
 
Terry T.

Sorry Terry....I guess he had he wrong aircraft to start with.....I did not mean to offend you.
 
The 8th AF DID hit some of the same targets as the 15th, but not too often....The 15th was organized to bomb some targets beyond the range of the 8th AAF, and also to appease Stalin, who was complaining that he had to fight the Germans by himself on some targets.
 
Jim :-)

James S. Peters Sr. T/Sgt
B-17 Flt Engr, 27 missions
99 BG, 348BS, 5th Wing, 15th AAF
Tortorella, (Foggia#2), Italy
My Tour was from 12/03/44-06/19/45
M/Sgt USAF (Retired)

Jim
I have tried your link to www.abmc.org but can't  find  what you found.  What am I doing wrong?  This novice GEEK does not travel well.
Chuck

A3/503/173ABN NAM 68-69
"Death From Above"

SGT.-  www.abmc.gov
Mike

Chuck :
 
When you go to www.abmc.gov     Do not type in the individual's name "if you know the person's UNIT Squadron number...instead drop down to where the selection gives you a choice of UNIT, then type in the SQUADRON number...this will bring up ALL of the losses for that SQUADRON.
 
Many times an Individual will not be located under the person's name, but by going to the UNIT ..SQUADRON, he can be located. This is PROVIDING he is in one of the ABMC cemeterys.
 
Jim :-)
 

James S. Peters Sr. T/Sgt
B-17 Flt Engr, 27 missions
99 BG, 348BS, 5th Wing, 15th AAF
Tortorella, (Foggia#2), Italy
My Tour was from 12/03/44-06/19/45
M/Sgt USAF (Retired)

Jim
    Sorry about not getting back to you on this sooner.  I've been down somse dead ends.
     ABMC and the 1st fighter web site have an error on Lovell.  He went down 1/11/43 not 44. I have been advised that corrections are being made.  Question: Could the P-38 have survived the collision and made it back to base and that's why we cannot find a MACR for the P-38 on 1/11/44 or a KIA for any of the three FGs?    Or    Could the original MACR accounts be in error and it was not a P-38 but another fighter type that knocked the B-17 down?  Wouldn't there be some kind of incident report and would that be in a mission summary?
                                                          Chuck

A3/503/173ABN NAM 68-69
"Death From Above"

 I think what should be done is to see if there is an aircraft accident report for that date for the B-17 in question. 
 
 
Terry T.

Terry,
   I'm up late too.  I do have a copy of the MACR.  Dad was "source" and the Navigator was also interview.  I just scrolled thro the spread sheet for the 1FG losses and I found Lovell , who we have excluded, but near the bottom, line #344, I found a William H. Wilson, lost 1/11/44. 0-429207,  1FG, 94FS.  No MACR.  Missing in Action or Buried at Sea.  Can someone help?
How can I confirm he was on that mission?
                                              Chuck

A3/503/173ABN NAM 68-69
"Death From Above"

sometime the have both MACR & an aircraft accident report..best to try and obtain both..
 
1st FG summary on there site for 11 Jan 1944.
http://www.1stfighter.org/history/1944.html




11 Jan 1944
After flying with the 14th Group on a bomber escort, the 1st continued on to a target with 25-30 aircraft against the 1st's 16. Fortunately the engagement resulted in two Me. 109s claimed and all the Group's aircraft returning safely.
 
 
Terry T.

Lt William H. Wilson was killed on an escort mission to Bizerte on 11 Jan 1943, the 1st FG timeline says.
 
I wonder if for the sake of clarity to the many non-American readers of this website if  it's possible to mention the month with (some) letters? For most Europeans and perhaps others 1/11/44 would be 1 Nov 44, instead of 11 Jan 44 as it would be for most Americans.
Like this all those looking for an answer at least start with the right date.
 
Regards,
 
Leendert
Belgium
 

To all: the collisions on 11 Jan 44 are well described in a thread on the 301st BG forum during early 2005 ("Collision on 1/11/1944"). It provides a link to a British website that gives all details. Apparently no P-38 was involved...
 
Leendert
 
 
 
 

Terry,
      I read that summary for 1/11/1944 and it makes no sense to me.  Did the 1FG complete the escort mission with the 14FG then go on to a neew target and engage 25-30 enemy aircraft with only 16 planes from the 1FG?  Would not both  the 1stFG and the 14thFG stay with sthe bombers and escort them back to base.
               Chuck

A3/503/173ABN NAM 68-69
"Death From Above"

Leendert,
    On the www.abmc.gov website the 1FG, 94FS has two pilots lost on 1/11/44.  One is William A Lovell  and I have already been advised that there is an error on the site andhis loss was actually 1/11/43.  That same error is on the spreadsheet  of losses on the 1FG website.   Both sites are to be corrected.
     ABMC also shows William H. Wilson lost on 1/11/1944 and now it looks like he (like Lovell) has an incorrect loss date.  Thank you for the help.
                          Chuck

A3/503/173ABN NAM 68-69
"Death From Above"

Leendert,
     My dad was a TG on that day 1/11/1944.  He was on "Restless Bess" #25470  99BG 346Sqdn  MISSION #129 to bomb harbor at Athens Greece.  There were two mid-air collisions that day.  The 301BG lost 5 B-17 when two B-17 from the 97BG turned back into them in dense clouds.
     The second collision happened fourty miles away.  It was my dads plane  from the 99BG.  I have the MACR #1820 and it does, in fact, state that  " Bess"  was brought down by a P-38.  My dad was the "source" on the MACR interview as was the Navigator (Raftery) .There are also statements from two others on two accompanying B-17s, that were included in the MACR.
      So far I have been unsuccessful in locating that P-38 and its pilot.   I've made a lot of contacts on various forumns and I'm confident that in time we will find this info.
                                     Thanks for your info
                                                            CHUCK

A3/503/173ABN NAM 68-69
"Death From Above"