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Nose Art search
I am attempting to find a source showing Nose Art and Planes names by serial number.
Specifically I am looking for any information on 1st Lt Greig Ward's plane 42-40178. It was in the 424th BS and lost July20,1943 (MACR#200).
I am attempting to find any photos of the plane or it's crew for the family of S/Sgt Edward Kindsvater. I sure would appreciate any help available.
ken
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jpeters140
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Ken....A suggestion....you caused me to look up the 424th BS in the Maurer-Maurer book, Combat Squadrons of The Airforces in WW II, to determine WHAT BOMB GROUP you are referring to.
I learned that the 424th BS was assigned to the 307th BG which flew B-24s, in the 13th AAF in the Pacific.
I happen to have both Maurer-Maurer Books.
Please, in any future postings....PLEASE tell us as much available the you have at your disposal. We are perfectly willing to assist anyone who asks questions on this forum website, but WE NEED INFORMATION...as much as you have available to you.
Also, If you know what type of aircraft you are referring to....please post that as well....This website covers ALL BOMBERS...Heavies, Mediums and Attack, as well as all Cargo and fighters.
It would narrow the search to know WHAT aircraft you refer to...there were two Heavy bomber types...B-17 and B-24, plus two VERY HEAVY types....B-29 and B-32.
Jim :-)
P.S. As one of the Moderators, I am transferring this posting to the 307th BG.
P.P.S. You will find the 307th BG, under the GROUPS BY NUMBER....there is a 307th BG Associaton listed under the 307th B.G.
James S. Peters Sr. T/Sgt B-17 Flt Engr, 27 missions 99 BG, 348BS, 5th Wing, 15th AAF Tortorella, (Foggia#2), Italy My Tour was from 12/03/44-06/19/45 M/Sgt USAF (Retired)
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Jim, Thanks for the suggestion. I knew the Bomb Group (307th) and the 424th Bomb Squadron
and thanks to an assist from R. Swank I now have copies of the MACR #200. I am hoping to gather even more detail of the aircraft and it's crew for the Kindsvater family. They are very excited about the information the association has already provided.
Thanks a million,
Ken
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RSwank
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This may be a tough search. On the website: http://www.307bg.org/ 42-40178 is listed in a pdf file showing its loss and the MACR number but no name is listed for the plane. Other planes on this list do have names, so it is possible that the plane was not named. This website also has a lot of pictures of crews and planes but often there does not appear to be any names or plane numbers associated with the pictures. You would almost have to know what a person looked like to possibly identify him by looking at a lot of pictures. You might be able to identify the tail number in the picture if it is clear enough of the plane. A website with lots of nose art for B-24s is: http://www.b24bestweb.com/ but it does not appear that 42-40178 is pictured there.
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jpeters140
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Ken...There is a Data Block under the left pilot's window on ALL USAAF aircraft. U.S.ARMY B-24D-35-CO Air FORCE SER.NO. 42-40178 This is from Joe Baugher's website : http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/usafserials.html 40178 (307th BG) lost in Solomons Jul 20, 1943. MACR 200 This information HAS to be in any nose art/name to be OFFICIALLY Recognized, or the aircraft tail number has to be in a nose art/name photo. Not all aircraft had a name or nose art...this is because an aircraft could be a replacement aircraft, and there just wasn't time for a local artist to paint anything on the aircraft. Usually, if an ENTIRE BOMB GROUP was sent overseas as one shipment, the aircraft DID have nose art, and/or name. In addition, the usual photo of nose art is of the RIGHT side, and the Data Information is on the left side, and some aircraft had one nose art/name on one side WITH an additional DIFFERENT nose art name on the other side. It IS possible that the 307th BG Association COULD have a photo....you will have to access that website to determine that. When you sign on to the armyairforces....Instead of clicking on Posts Today, SCROLL down to the USAAF GROUPS BY NUMBER...and select the 307th BG..then click on the LEFT directly on the 307BG...this will usually bring up the first line with access to the Bomb Group Association. Jim :-)
James S. Peters Sr. T/Sgt B-17 Flt Engr, 27 missions 99 BG, 348BS, 5th Wing, 15th AAF Tortorella, (Foggia#2), Italy My Tour was from 12/03/44-06/19/45 M/Sgt USAF (Retired)
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RSwank
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Ken, I looked a little more through the 307bg.org website. They did use the last 3 digits of the serial number as a plane number on the nose of the plane. Here for example is a picture of the plane called Round Trip on their website. http://www.307bg.org/images/opt/307bg_287.jpg Note the 644 on the nose. Here is the same plane: http://www.b24bestweb.com/roundtrip-v2-1.htm Here is is identified as plane 42-40644. The the 3 digit nose number is the last 3 digits of the serial number. You need to look for 178 in any pictures on the 307bg.org website. Good hunting.
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danodenweller
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Hello all, some additional information. From the book "The Long Rangers, a diary of the 307th BG (H)" by Sam S. Britt, Jr., there are three references to Lt. Greig S. Ward, the first is on page 46, then 49 and 52.
Page 46 - "Lt . Greig S. Ward (424th) and crew were shot down over Kahili by night fighters." This in a paragraph discussing a night mission on July 20.
Page 49 - Jumps back to July 8th mission to search for Lt. Cobb and crew. Part of a nine aircraft search mission, which included searching for signs of Lts. Littlepage and Hathaway and crews.
Page 52 - "Lt. Grieg Ward (424th) reported that after this, the ship stopped moving, listed to the stern and was abandoned by the crew." This on a bombing mission Kahili (weathered out) and diverted to Balalle, on July 18th.
The data bases on the 307th web site are compilations of data from other sources, coupled with a lot of piecing bits together, to organize the available information. A work in progress, but useful, if your search terms are in my data base.
Dan B. Odenweller
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Kiwi Escape
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A word of caution, only about 50% of aircraft carried "nose art/names". the rest are most easily identified (in official records) usually by the the last 3 figits of the serial number eg #178
Pete
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424thBS#1son
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Jim McCabe, Historian 307th BG Assoc. www.307bg.net My father, Lt. Mike McCabe(deceased 4/26/05), 307th BG, 424th BS, was a Navigator based at Morotai. Mission dates ranged from 2/20/45-8/1/45.
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Kiwi Escape
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Gents, I have a database of all B-24 serial numbers, with associated names (many unverified). My collection of 307BG pictures comprises 1178 images. The only image of this that I have is this very poor one "clipped" from a "montage" the 307BG web site. The following is a prcis of the IARC: 08/01/43 ACP AAF; 13/01/43 Tucson; 25/02/43 Long Bch (6th Fry Grp); Topeka; 02/03/43 OBEY A; 14/04/43 OBEY A; 14/04/43 OBEY; 20/07/43 CON AFMSC Solomon; 20/07/43 Solomon 13AF CON MISS COMBAT The aircraft was inducted into the Hawaiian Air Depot on 17 April 1943 where it's "greenhouse" nose was removed and replaced with a Consolidated A6A turret. I was released from the depot on 27 Apr 43 and delivered to 307BG on Guadalcanal. Pete
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WillowRun
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Ken, As an addition to the information and links supplied here, you might also wish to use the "search" tool on this Site. If you choose to do so, then just put in "nose art" allowing for all forums, and 15 pages of Threads will come up (one, for example, is the right side - left side discussion mentioned by Jim Peters in post #5. You might find this link helpful: http://www.b24bestweb.com/ . Also, have you used the late Wally Foreman's book (B-24 Nose Art) which might be of assistance? I personally find nose art to be a fascinating subject from the"pop art" and historical perspective as well as from the "sentimental aspect" of the servicemen. Continued good hunting!!!
Best Regards! Steven Puhl Ford Willow Run Bomber Plant ( FO) Historian MODERATOR: http://www.armyairforces.com/Member: Yankee Air Museum Member: 8TH AF Historical Society Member: 2ND Air Division Historical Society
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