Needed info on GP CO Col.Jacob Smart & Maj.Hill

Does anyone have SQD logos photos of the 97BG ?  Does anyone knows under
what circustances the Co Pilot of Col. Jacob Smart 97BG GP CO , Maj. Holmer T.Hill
SQD  CO 414tth was killed at the POW camp in Germany and what date  ?  When
was Col.Jacob Smart appointed as GP CO ? Jacob Smart plane was down on Wiener
Neustadt on May 10,1944.

Thanks in advance
Alex

Arrow1,

A/c was a B17 serial number 42-97655. MACR 4722.

Smart was wounded and in Hospital until July. He was the only 4Star General to have been a POW.

NARA has Major. Homer T.Hill as -
Status: 7. Returned to Military Control , Liberated or Repatriated.
Camp: 033. Stalag Luft 3 Sagan-Silesia Bavaria (Moved to Nuremberg-Langwasser) 49-11 .

Where did you find that he was killed as a POW please as that conflicts with what you have ?

Alex

As on  our previous topics comm. , was determined that you relay on footnote and vet internet
data bases resources, which is widely available to everyone . I relay on the history books of of every
of the 15AF BG's and FG's I posses . According to the history book of 97BG  , Maj.Hill was killed at Satalg
and is listed on the roll of honor of the 97th as killed at a POW camp. Or do you wanna challenge this ?
In that case why dont you  check page Nr 170 .of that history book which was printed by Taylor
Publ.Company in 1993 .One thing I may agree, is that the MACR which was prepared in WWII
may have an error , though I cant imagine that the history book would contain such type of an errors
and list a former SQD as killed when in fact he may have been alive !  This history book is name
" THE HOUR HAS COME "

Alex
Rumania Bombings Historian

ARROW1,

Cool it

Alex

If you feel upset about something, why dont you spare your offensive remarks for yourself
or simply ignore my topics if you lacking facts ?

Check page 9 of MACR 4722 - Homer T Hill filled out a post-war Casualty Questionnare form.  Page 19 shows his status as EUS and RTD.

Hello ARROW1,

The History book of the 97th BG you refer too is it the same one you name please " THE HOUR HAS COME " or is that a second book that you have that gives the info you refer too ?

If at all possible could you put the page(s) up in this thread as I do not have the book(s).
 
Also with regard to your  reference to Footnote which you assumed I refered too. For your information I do not have access to Footnote. 

All the best
Alex

Mark

As I have initially indicated, Smart MACR crew was done in WWII while the history book is dated
1993 with no further reprinting , If Hill would have been well and alive as a former SQ CO he and
the 97BG historians would have never let such error change the history lifeline.  For that purpose
check the attached scan from the VENITI HORA , right hand side lowest side . It clearly states that
Maj.Hill died in captivity.

Alex
Rumania 42-44 Bombings Historians

Attached Image(s)

He was alive and well and had been promoted to Lt. Col. at the time he filled out the post-war Casualty Questionnare.  The 97th History is obviously in error.  See attached.

Attached Image(s)

Mark

Obviously u've got a point mate, but how would you feel if you were on Hills shoes
confrunted with that crap after 48 years ?  The book seems to be exteremly accurate
and if we talk about this , maybe u've got a clue on something...on April 17,1944
a Wellington of the 205th Group made a belly landing while running out of fuel on
its return leg from a night bombing at Amendola. It swept several tents along until
it came to a full stop. 6 NCO's of the 97th waiting for their trip back to the States were killed
asleep caused by the props.  Do you have an idea from what mission that Wellington
came back from ?

Was not Rumania because on 16/17 April 205th Group  didnt bomb Rumania .

Alex

Hello Arrow1,

I have read 205 Gp ORB and if you mean the night of -
16/17th April 1944 the targets were -
Budapest MY's - 55 Wellingtons.
Leghorn - 5 Wellingtons.
Piombino - 9 Wellingtons
Porto San Stefano - 8 Wellingtons.
If you mean the night of
17/18th April 1944 the target was -
Plovdiv MY - 35 Wellingtons.
But 19 were unable to take off due to a Wellington having a tyre burst on take off and burned out which resulted in two other Wellingtons blowing up several crew were injured.

I will check the Wellington losses for serial number and get back to you on it later on.

All for now
Alex

Hello Arrow1,
As promised, these are the serial numbers for the Wellingtons .

16th April 44
HE344 collided over Foggia Main with LP146, both of 104 Squadron.

17thApril 44
JA127 - 142 Squadron MIA Budapest
JA509 - 40 Squadron Swung on take off Foggia Main, hit Wellington, Destroyed by fire.
LN928 - 104 Squadron Ditched Corsica on return from Leghorn.
LN769 - 40 Squadron Damaged beyond Repair in accident.
LN868 - 70 Squadron Damaged beyond Repair in accident.
LN503 - 142 Squadron MIA Budapest.
LN902 - 40 Squadron Hit by JA509 while parked Foggia Main.
HZ135 - 142 Squadron Crash landed Amendola on return from Budapest.

18th April 44
LN919 - 150 Squadron Force landed in Turkey on return from Ploudiv.

I think that HZ135 may be the one you asked about. I could find no others.

All for now
Alex

Alex,

To me it looks like the section of page 170 with a gray background was statements quoted by members of the 97th, not written by the authors.  It looks like Leo Dennison said Major Hill died in prison camp and the editors did not verify and correct the statement.  On page 245 they also included Major Hill in the list of 97th BG members who were KIA, but do not give the date of his death, just that he was a POW.

Remember, many of these "history" books were not put together until long after the war ended.  This book wasn't done until 1993.  A lot of memories have faded and details got blurred.  Its nice when we can find multiple sources of information to verify the "facts", but remember, even the "facts" recorded right after some of these events occured may be off due to the perspective of the witnesses.
 
Marty

Marty

Absolutely right and I appreciate your comment. I've got a question as it seems you
are well aquainted with the subject , do 463rd , 483rd ,301st (5th Wing )  and
464th and 465th (55 Wing ) have histories books , I was after these books for
years and couldnt find a thing  . Thanks in advance for your feedback

Best Regards
Alex

Rumania Bombings Historian

Alex

Thats a great info you supplied, as my history book of the 205th is related only to Rumania bombings
campaign.Attached the photos of that ill fated Wellington which killed the 6 GI's who were on standy
for return to the States.  The 142 SQD of 330 Wing  of Wng Cdr  Gibbs lost in Rumania 4 Wellingtons .

Alex

Rumania Bombings Historian

Attached Image(s)

Hello Arrow1,

Very sad to see the Wellington' remains.

As I said I could only find three for 142 Sqdn. That is not saying there were not four as you say. Perhaps one of the other a/c I listed was crewed by a 142 crew ? or the a/c was on loan to 142 Sqdn ?

The crews of the two I gave as lost lie at rest in Budapest and Belgrade.
One full crew of six in Budapest and four of the five man crew in Belgrade one survived and became a POW.
The crew of HZ135 must have all got out safely as I can find no details on them. Again could be five or six aircrew involved.

All for now
Alex

no according to the book , some survived , 2 were killed rest WIA, 6 US GIA
were killed asleep

Alex