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Hot!Mystery P-51B Mustang : 354thFG, then 10thTRG.

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Flying Tiger
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Mystery P-51B Mustang : 354thFG, then 10thTRG.

I have been trying to find any more info on that P-51B seen in the "Shark's Teeth Nose Art" book by J.Ethell (Airlife).
I enclose a scan. A possible nose/anti-glare panel color seems to appear on the photo (see yellow arrow) ?
Code may well be C3-... ?
Help !
 
Jean.
post edited by Flying Tiger -

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Col.J.D.Landers
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Re:Mystery P-51B or C Mustang ? (permalink)
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The code could possibly be GQ or PE though!?
 
The 352nd definitely had some early P-51's with sharks teeth. 
 
Flying Tiger
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Re:Mystery P-51B or C Mustang ? (permalink)
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Well, the close-up shows that the first 2 letters are "rounded".
QG , yes, maybe...
A "H" may be the individual letter appearing just above the D-Day stripes.
So, QG*H ... or C3*H ?
Any other guess ?
Jean.

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Paul E.
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Re:Mystery P-51B or C Mustang ? (permalink)
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I think that the radius of the curve on the front letter or number makes it either a 6, 9 or S.  The back fragment of the code seems to me to be the bottom of the letter G with the serif showing.  So based on the Little Friends web site, my guess is that this plane was from the 505th FS of the 339th FG (6N), the 436th FS of the 479th FG (9B), or the 352nd FS of the 353rd FG (SX).
The 505th FS had a P51B coded 6N*G flown by W. Krauss, and a P51C coded 6N*G, pilot unlisted.  other two groups - 9B*? or SX*? didn't seem to have any planes identified with the letter G but did have both P51Bs and P51Cs.  Of course the G as well as the other letters/nubers are also speculative.
Paul
rickpeck2
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Re:Mystery P-51B or C Mustang ? (permalink)
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It is a 355 FS 354 FG plane,GQ.
Need to look through my Schiffer book on the 354 FG ,I think that is were I seen it.
Rick
Paul E.
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Re:Mystery P-51B or C Mustang ? (permalink)
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Rick,  I think you are absolutely correct.  I found a photo of a plane with the code GQ*G of the 355th FS of the 354th FG although missing the invasion stripes etc.  Both of the letters G that appear have the serif I believe can be seen in the last letter on the left side of the fuselage of the plane.  http://upload.wikimedia.o...en/c/c7/354fg-p51b.jpg
The plane in the photo has no mission markings (bombs) on the nose etc. and seems to not have been through much action yet.
The tail number is 3-12408 which according to my source, makes it a P51B-1NA and very near the end of that production run of 400 which ended with tail number 3-12492.
 
Paul
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Re:Mystery P-51B or C Mustang ? (permalink)
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Thanks, gentlemen !
You're right: "G" seems to be the right choice, and I can't wait to see if you found something in the 354th FG book, that I don't have !
That forum is amazing !
Merci !
 
Jean.
Alex Smart
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Re:Mystery P-51B or C Mustang ? (permalink)
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Hello,
Not "GQ-H" 43-12209, 2Lt. Richard McDonald - POW, 11th Feb 44, MACR 2168.
 
8th AAF( P-51's D-Day+)
355th FG - 357th FS - "OS"
356th FG - 359th FS - "OC"
359th FG - 370th FS -"CS"
355th FG/357th FS
43-6640 - lost 6/6/44 - Lt George W. Phillips - KIA.
42-103753 - Capt. Fred R. Haviland jr.
359th FG/370th FS
42-106704 - "H"
42-106894 - "H"
43-24778 - " H"
43-24799 - "H
 
9th AAF ( P-51's D-Day+)
10th PG - 34th PS - "S9"
354th FG - 355th FS - "GQ"
363rd FG - 382nd FS - "C3"
363rd TRG - 162nd TRS - "C3"
354th FG/355th FS
P51B - "GQ-H" - Lt. Kermit Lowell BRUELAND - victories 6th March 44; 7th June 44;28th June 44 in "H".( this is my guess).
ref: www.cieldegloire.com
 
A/c in photo has quite a few scores - are they for ground straffing or bombing ?
also looks like two E/A scores under cockpit ?
And, as the Group or Squadron is still unknown, why was this thread placed in the 363rd Fighter Group section and not under the General "Fighters" section ? 
Alex
book refs: "Little Friends"; "Support & Strike".
post edited by Alex Smart -
Paul E.
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Re:Mystery P-51B or C Mustang ? (permalink)
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It's difficult to be sure but it looks like 24 bomb symbols and 1 1/2 A/C credits.  The 354th FG often used a black swastika in a white circle which was on a red square.  The photo in question appears to have one full circle shape and on half of a circle to the right of the full one.
Paul
 
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Re:Mystery P-51B or C Mustang ? (permalink)
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Alex Smart 354th FG/355th FS
P51B - "GQ-H" - Lt. Kermit Lowell BRUELAND - victories 6th March 44; 7th June 44;28th June 44 in "H".( this is my guess).  ref: www.cieldegloire.com
A/c in photo has quite a few scores - are they for ground straffing or bombing ?
also looks like two E/A scores under cockpit ?

Thanks, Alex !
I strongly believe that the last letter is a "G". Markings looks like bombing missions, and yes, it seems 1 & 1/2 kills are displayed.
Alex Smart And, as the Group or Squadron is still unknown, why was this thread placed in the 363rd Fighter Group section and not under the General "Fighters" section ? 

Sorry for that, but I first thought that this P-51 was coded C3...
I am a recent user of the forums and, maybe, an administrator could move that post to another place...
Jean.
Alex Smart
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Re:Mystery P-51B or C Mustang ? (permalink)
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Hello Jean,
 
 
 
Alex

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Flying Tiger
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Re:Mystery P-51B or C Mustang ? (permalink)
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Hello, Alex.
The individual letter looks like the "G" on the linked photo provided by Paul :
http://upload.wikimedia.o...en/c/c7/354fg-p51b.jpg
Don't you think ?...
Alex Smart
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Re:Mystery P-51B or C Mustang ? (permalink)
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Hello,
Did I miss something ?
Are you saying that this aircraft

and this aircraft

Are one and the same aircraft ?
I thought that this aircraft

was put up to show as an example the type of letter"G" being discussed, not that it was the same aircraft.
Alex
 
 

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Flying Tiger
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Re:Mystery P-51B or C Mustang ? (permalink)
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Well, Alex, that COULD be the same a/c !
The picture of G*GQ was supposed to show the style of the "G" letter, but now, I am wondering if that P-51B wouldn't be the "grinning" subject I'm searching !
To be continued...
 
Jean.
 
Paul E.
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Re:Mystery P-51B or C Mustang ? (permalink)
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I am sure that this is a photo of the actual plane when it had just been delivered to the 354th FG and had yet to receive the white spinner, nose ring and vertical stabilizer stripe of the 354th.  The other two squadron codes were FT and AJ, and the mystery AC is clearly not either of those. 

Here is a link to a photo of another P51B from the 354th FG although from the 356thFS.  It has a tail number just 25 planes away from GQ * G in the production run.  http://354thfightergroup.....com/misspearidge.html
It is an amazing coincidence.
Paul 
 
rickpeck2
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Re:Mystery P-51B or C Mustang ? (permalink)
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Looked through the Schiffer book twice and didn't see it in there .
The Osprey book I checked also.
Not sure were I seen it now.
Like someone else said the kill and mission markings look like 355 FS.
I'll keep looking.
 
swissmustangs
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Re:Mystery P-51B or C Mustang ? (permalink)
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it was 43-6638 GQ-T - see below
 

 
cordially, Martin
Alex Smart
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Re:Mystery P-51B or C Mustang ? (permalink)
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Hello Martin,
Great photo, even got the checkered nose band .
And I have to ask -
Do you have any information on the pilot and what was the earlier a/c letter before "T" ?
I ask this because it can be seen that the leg of the "T" is in position over the "Black" part of the now old "invasion stripes" while the leg(s) shown in the first photo is to be seen over the "White" part of the "invasion stripes".
Aditional info
This a/c 43-6638 ended its days with the 10th TRG so the photo you gave us Martin may well have been taken when with that Unit, Small Blue/White Checks.
And in WarbirdTeck Series Number 5 pages 95/96 there are some photos of this aircraft and two close-ups of the cockpit area. The pilots name "Lt. Buck####" cannot make out the rest could be first name or first part of last name. There was a 2Lt. Fred Gordon Buckner with the 355th Sqdn who was Lost off Ipswitch on 12th October 44, perhaps it was him in the cockpit in the very first photo in the 1st Posting. He was lost while with another aircraft 43-6730. Maybe they kept his 'plane "as it was"  in case he turned up ? Oh and the leading edges are smooth, no guns in the last two views.  

 
All for now
Alex
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Ted51
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Re:Mystery P-51B or C Mustang ? (permalink)
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Good morning Martin, Alex and all:
The aircraft survived the War to be salvaged on either January or February 1946. The first digit on the IARc is blurry. I am wondering if this is a post War photo or a redeployment of the aircraft back to the 354th as part of the Occupation AF? There is a Form 14 Accident Report for the 10th PRG in March of 1945 and the inital transfere of the a/c to the 10th PRG may have occured in very late August of 1944. As per your discussion of the painting diffeerences, I would suggest the possibiloity of post War. Alex, I will try to get out my 9th AF pilots lists to see if I can further go down that road but it will be a long shot to say the least. Have a great day!  Ted 51
rickpeck2
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Re:Mystery P-51B or C Mustang ? (permalink)
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Martins/Alex post is the photo's I was thinking of.
Didn't even think of that book.Thanks guys for save my backside.
Started to think I was wrong.
Looking at the Schiffer book with this serial number it stated the pilot was Lt.Lorin Long but I can't find any kills for him.Code GO-T
While I was looking through the kill list I found Maj. Dalglish used a GO-T for the the first 1.5 kills he had but differant serial numbers.
Looked up Dalglish name and found he was called "Buck" Dalglish many times so maybe this is one of his first P-51B's.?
He scorned his fifth kill in the 363 FG.Ironic I think since this is in the 363 FG forum,anyway I'm guessing.
The 355 FS had those type of checks on the nose in the summer of 1944,blue and white.
Interesting thread.
Rick
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