I was surprised to find that the B-29 had fabric control surfaces. I know the B-17 and B-24 did, and quite a few fighters too.  To summarise please, which of these WW2 USAAF a/c had fabric control surfaces?
P-38
P-39
P-40
P-47
P-51
P-61

Please feel free to list any I have not listed.  I'm under the impression that most were fabric.

Thanks in advance.

It is my understanding no US WWII a/c had other than fabric control surfaces, but that statement may have been in error.

As an aside, the British Spitfire was equipped with metal control surfaces during the early part of the war. Douglas Bader actually got them directly from the factory for his Canadians, once production of the surfaces started. Completely outside of channels: Johnny Johnson, who took over after Bader was shot down over St. Omer, hwas able to explain that he had nothing to do with it, and that the investigators coud contact the previous commander care of the Luftwaffe, once the inevitable investigation occurred...

Robbie

Prop...I was informed at the Dayton Air Fair some years ago,by a retired W-P person that one reason for the fabric surfaces was :

1. It saved metal.

2. If the aircraft exceeded the dive speed, a metal surface would bend and stay bent, whereas, fabric would come off in strips and allow still allow control.

3. My own thought is that there were a lot of trained personnel in Dope and Fabric Work.
   The B-17, (and subsequent aircraft) was developed in 1934-1935 and was one of the first aircraft to use metal, rather than fabric covering, so it was also a means of using the trained Dope and Fabric workers.

Jim :-)

James S. Peters Sr. T/Sgt
B-17 Flt Engr, 27 missions
99 BG, 348BS, 5th Wing, 15th AAF
Tortorella, (Foggia#2), Italy
My Tour was from 12/03/44-06/19/45
M/Sgt USAF (Retired)

AJ.....there was a shortage of metal ailerons when they were replacing fabric ones in 1941 (they had to be retro-fitted as well as on the production lines ) ;apparently when the AAF got their Mk.Vs in 1942 ( presumably the 31 and 52 FGs..) they fitted plywood ones temporarily. The smooth surface made them more effective.                      Nick

I believe most of the F4U wing (from the main spar back) was fabric covered also.
 
Al Blue

Al...I agree, and also the PBY-5,5A and 6A ,were also fabric from the main spar aft.
 
I saw this at the Champlin Fighter Museum at Mesa AZ and those aircraft are now at Seattle.
 
I saw the PBY-6A at Tyler, Texas ,before the accident in the Gulf Of Mexico, several years ago when the PBY-6A crashed due to an illegal Vietnamese fishing post, that the PBY-6A struck on a low pass.
 
Jim :-) 

James S. Peters Sr. T/Sgt
B-17 Flt Engr, 27 missions
99 BG, 348BS, 5th Wing, 15th AAF
Tortorella, (Foggia#2), Italy
My Tour was from 12/03/44-06/19/45
M/Sgt USAF (Retired)

Great, thanks for the replies guys.   \

Is it possible I could extend this question  to other nations during WW2?  Mainly the UK, Germany and Japan?

I'm assuming that most movable control surfaces were material because of a shortage in aluminum?

Just checked my notes and I have written here that all P-47s bar the B type had all metal ailerons...etc.  I didn't write down my source sadlym but can anyone comment on this please?

ORIGINAL: Propwash


I'm assuming that most movable control surfaces were material because of a shortage in aluminum?

Prop,
I don't have any specific knowledge on the design of control surfaces, but...
All aircraft materials are selected based on their strength to weight ratios.  The material used would be that which has an adequate balance based on strength to weight.  The loads on a control surface would be less on the slower aircraft than the faster more nimble fighter aircraft, and therefore fabric on slower bombers.
As I remember the basic load bearing frames were made of aluminum with only the web material being the doped fabric.  This design it would seem was adequate for the purpose and not a compromise due to material shortage.  This is my guess.

Bob Gilbert
Ball Turret Gunner, Goldin crew
381st Bomb Gp., 533rd Bomb Sq.
US 8th Air Force

  I think another reason was that fabric can be repaired more easily.  The practice of fabric control surfaces continued for many years after the war on some aircraft, so it wasn't just a material shortage issue.
 
Steve G

I was stationed at Elmondorf Air force Base in Alaska, in 1948-1950 and the preference for the Bush pilots was for fabric covered aircraft as it was far easier to carry a small can of Dope and some fabric for a makeshift repair to get bact to civilization, in the event of damage, that had it been metal, would not have allowed the aircraft to safely fly.
 
A repair to metal would have necessitated sheet metal tools and rivets with the weight of those tools versus the fabric and small can of dope.
 
Jim :-)

James S. Peters Sr. T/Sgt
B-17 Flt Engr, 27 missions
99 BG, 348BS, 5th Wing, 15th AAF
Tortorella, (Foggia#2), Italy
My Tour was from 12/03/44-06/19/45
M/Sgt USAF (Retired)

We brought a factory rep in to teach some of the museum volunteers the dope/fabric techniques to recover the control surfaces on the 17. It seems to be something of a lost art except for restorers and some homebuilders. What impressed me was when the instructor covered the top of an open trash barrel. After the resin dried he stood on the covered surface as a demonstration of its strength.

   Actual good old fashion dope isn't as popular as it was twenty years ago.  The 'Superflite' system is actual dope and is still available.  By far the most popular system these days is the Stits/Polyfiber system.  It is similar to dope but is actually a vinyl product. I'm recovering my airplane now using the Stits process, its a good system but doesn't smell as good as dope  The big difference now days is cost. A gallon of any of the materials used is at least 75 to 80 bucks, and it takes a lot of gallons to cover even a small aircraft.
 
Steve G

Gotta remember here- at the beginning of WWII, fabric covered control surfaces were the standard on all aircraft of the world: Most of our aircraft flown during the war were products of late 1930's designs- and therefore subject to the designs of their times. Aluminum coverings started coming in when the fighters of the worlds air forces started experiencing compressability, and tearing of the fabric when recovering from dives, etc. It was a new technology at the time- aircraft were just starting to reach speeds where this could be an adverse condition. So it was less of a question of "why did they use them" but "why did they not change over after they recognized the problem and solution" The British, with their Spitfire, started replacing their fabric control surfaces- ailerons & elevators- early in the war: they found them to be very efficient at correcting the probems they were encountering...

Robbie

Another movable control surface not yet mentioned were the aileron, elevator and rudder control tabs. On the B-24 these started out as fabricated aluminium but as the war went on they were all changed to molded phenolic plastic.

The B-17 trim tabs, aileron,elevator and rudder were metal...the elevator tabs were curved on the lower surface.
 
Jim :-)

James S. Peters Sr. T/Sgt
B-17 Flt Engr, 27 missions
99 BG, 348BS, 5th Wing, 15th AAF
Tortorella, (Foggia#2), Italy
My Tour was from 12/03/44-06/19/45
M/Sgt USAF (Retired)

  good day gentlemen, very intereting topic you have here.
 
Let me wade in a bit of ancient history - the German Junkers J-1 of around 1915 vintage flew with all control surfaces being metal covered, as well as the internal structure and exterior covering being metal as well - an all metal aircraft by definition.
 
Then moving to 1932, the all-metal Boeing P-26 Peashooter fighter had metal covered control surfaces and flaps as well, but had wire braced monoplane wings.
 
The first really modern all-metal aircraft was probably the Lockheed XP-38 Lightning which featured metal control control surfaces and flaps from day one -1-27-1939; its chief designer Kelly Johnson was after a truly fast operational fighter at 450 mph, a very sleek appearance, and concern for compressibly dating from initial design.
 
Besides these aircraft, there were many others with varying amounts of metal in structure, covering and control surfaces in the same time periods.
 
the best,
 
Tony