MACR that isn't one (I'm not sure where to post this)

Hi
I'm hoping someone has suggestions of where I might find additional documentation of a crash in 1944. Honestly, I'm not holding my breath, but thought perhaps someone else may have experienced a similar problem. 
 
I will list the specific information below, but here's the situation: I obtained what was labeled an MACR, but isn't one. The number appears on all of the indices I have found, but comes back to the same file. I contacted a web site called "Aviation Archeology" for assistance, but they couldn't find an actual MACR either.
The file is actually correspondence pertaining to a request for information of the crash by the next-of-kin - noted as "Similar to a MACR". My guess is the request came from my late father (brother of the pilot) who was also part of a flight crew in another group I haven't yet identified. As an air crewman himself, I'm sure he wasn't satisfied with the limited account provided to the family at the time.
 
Of the 7 pages in the report (which includes a blank cover page of just the report number) only one page actually has information. It reports the names of the crewmembers (5, plus an observer) and that it crashed in France while retuning from a trucking run. The cause of the crash is listed as "failure of all four engines, reason unknown." Since the crash was significant enough that the crewmembers couldn't be individually identified and were buried in a common grave, logic tells me that it was unlikely there was enough left of the aircraft at the site to determine all four engines failed. I think that information probably came from radio contact, but there are no witness statements, coordinates of the crash site or information on the last inspection of the aircraft in the file. 
 
At the end of the page that briefly describes the incident, it mentions a Battle Causality Report. Is that something I would be able to obtain a copy of somewhere? 
 
The report states the crash was "near Lyancourt, France" (I'm sure they meant "Liancourt" since there is no Lyancourt), but somewhere else (I can't find the source in my files at the moment, it may have come from another crewman's sister) it’s claimed the crash was near St. Quentin, France; not a big difference - only about 80km - but in either case, the crash site wasn't that far from the front line on the date of the incident (between 80km-300km per the maps I've found), which, coupled with the fact it was a trucking run, suggests to me an in-depth crash site investigation wasn't a high priority; again, logic tells me the crash information must have come from radio contact.
 
Any information, suggestions or opinions you may have would be greatly appreciated.
 
MACR #15774
Date of loss: September 29, 1944
Plane Serial #: 41-29439
Type: B-24(H)“Gallopin’ Ghost”
1st Lt Marshall K. Lewis, Jr. O-701934 (Sometimes misidentified as Marshall E. Lewis)
8th Air Force
466th Group
787th Squad
Crew #741 (unverified)
 

 

 

Thanks for the response Scott, but that other post was mine as well. While it's true the background information is the same, what I'm trying to track down isn't. That is also the reason I didn't post it in the 466th forum.

Excuse me for appearing to state the obvious, but the report of loss/status was nearly contemporaneous to the event....MACRs were created within 48 hours of a reported loss...as there is no MACR it would follow that the crew and plane were not MISSING.
Therefore there will not be a MISSING Air Crew Report...there may be an ACCIDENT REPORT.
 
I saw in one of the threads a question about a German KU report...that would only be made if the plane was shot down by or recovered by the Germans...is there anything to indicate that occurred in this case?
 
A Battle Casualty Report is only a single half page form that codes the loss.  It is not a clinical/detail report.
 
I would suggest that you acquire the IDPF (Individual Deceased Personnel File) for each of the individuals lost.  These would have all relevant information on the casualty--and should contain whatever documents replaced the MACR requested.  Get all of them--no two IDPFs are the same (even from the same incident)--and there may be info in one that is not found in the others.
IDPFs are incredibly graphic and were never intended for release to kin...so be forewarned...we are talking about body parts here.
The IDPF was supposed to be the complete accumulation of all paperwork relevant to the loss of a service man.  So you may find copies of correspondence between commands, as well as correspondence between the Army and your family.  There should be paperwork regarding the identification and repatriation of the body.  If there were co-mingled remains buried near the original crash site--and then individual repatriations--then there will be forensic paperwork detailing the identification.  Again this is not casual reading.
 
Be patient....and Good Luck.
Edit: I see now that the crew was repatriated together and buried at Jeff Barracks.  Somehow I was under the impression from your thread that your relative came back individually.  Sorry.  This should in no way dissuade you from acquiring the IDPFs.

Thanks to both of you. 
 
It appears that being told the obvious is what I needed. While reading the search efforts of others in this forum and elsewhere, an MACR was all I ever saw mentioned. I'm new at this. I never heard of a IDPF. I understand the wisdom of obtaining a IDPF for all crew members aboard, but in the case of my uncle (the pilot) would the IDPF be included in his personnel file or would it be a separate file? (I plan on ordering his personnel records and don't want to pay copying fees for duplicates if it's unnecessary.) 
 
I sent an email yesterday to armyairforces.com, but I'm not sure if the online assistance request goes directly to the research help department. I'll have to see what I get in response.

Scott - sorry for being dense, but I want to make sure I'm clear and don't annoy people by repeatedly posting the same thing. I'm sure whomever reads my request will see it's bloody obvious I don't have a clue, but I don't want to make it more confusing by referencing something that's incorrect. Is "KIA" too vague a Deceased Code? It's all I've ever found describing my uncle's status, but I can dig further if necessary. 
 
Pathfinder504 - I appreciate the heads up. Graphic doesn't bother me. What I find upsetting isn't gore, it's the heartache of how young these men were; I don't need to see pictures to feel that.
 
I will continue to be patient and determined. I just hope that after all my research it doesn't turn out the files were lost in the fire. Thank you again gentlemen. 

You are more than welcome...everyone starts someplace...two years from now you will be the knowledgeable old researcher...!
 
His 201 or personnel file would have been housed at NPRC St. Louis.  Very likely destroyed in the fire.  You will shortly receive a form letter---the same one they've been sending out for the last four decades.  Don't hold your breath on that one.
The IDPFs are housed in the DC area and accessed through PERSCOM.  They are more likely to be available.  I do not know if they have a quantity restriction.  Last I heard you could ask for two (2) and then wait several months to make another request.  What you should do (completely legal) is ask for your uncle's and one other individual...and at the same time get three friends to request the others so that you will have four requests working at once and you might get all the reports at the same time.
 
You should also include all contact numbers and email addresses for yourself so they don't have a problem connecting with you.  I always included language stating that I am "willing to pay whatever costs may arise from printing or shipping" so in the event you exceed whatever arbitrary restrictions they may have, you don't get put in some file waiting for them to send out a note to you saying you have exceeded the minimum....if there is one.   Don't forget you're dealing with government bureaucrats and they don't think outside the box. 
 
I haven't made a request in a while, but had heard that they were redacting (black-lining) copy in the IDPF for "privacy" concerns.  Anyone with current information on that policy please comment.
 

Dave,
I concur; there is no designation KNB.  Correctly it is DNB--Died Non-Battle just a slight of my old mind, thanks for catching this error.
The current custodian for IDPF records:
 
US Army Human Resources Command
1600 Spearhead Division Avenue, Dept 107
Fort Knox KY 40122
Email (preferred): hrc.foia@conus.army.mil
 
When submitting requests in this manner you will receive a confirmation email that your request has been received and it will be assigned a FOIA request/file number for future reference.
 
Scott

I have a theory on a couple of issues concerning this crash and some designations. St. Dizier was used by Nineth Air Force fighter-bombers, not heavy bombers. First thing is to try and find out what was a "Trucking Mission". I suspect it was a recovery mission of an aircraft that landed at St. Dizier with battle damage, possibly your uncle's. I doubt a bomber would be used to transport supplies. But a recovery crew and spare parts is not out of the question.  If so, due to the fact that it was a combat mission related crash the men were considered KIA. As an example, a P-51 pilot from my home town was lost over the North Sea in January 1945 returning from France after diverting there several days earlier. He had been on an escort mission and landed in France due to weather in England on the return leg. When he left France for his base in England he crashed in the North Sea while descending through low cloud cover. I suppose since he was returning to base from a combat mission, even though several days later, his loss was still considered combat related and thus the KIA designation of his death. As to why all four engines failed? Fuel starvation would be the only logical answer. Taking off with several damaged and empty fuel tanks and then mismanaging fuel transfer valves could get you into trouble real fast. Like all engines suddenly or in rapid succession shutting down. If you can find out if he was on a mission days prior to the crash and find out if he made it home or diverted may answer some questions.
 
Just some thoughts,
Patrick

Here is an explanation of a "Trucking Mission". I found it in the Heavy and Very Heavy Bombers forum and copied and pasted it here. It was originally posted by Brian Mahoney.
Patrick McKeon
 
 
Great attachment, there Nick!

I got a little charge out of it, and your attention to detail. My father often flew "Little Pete II," the 467th BGs 'monitor' P-47. It's precursor was lost in a midair crash when one of the group officers got too close to the nose turret of a B-24 in a practice flight, killing that nose gunner.

I have often wondered if other BGs had such a craft, as most people considered it to be unusual.

In early September 1944, Dad was charged with reconnoitering for a forward field in France after the Normady breakout, for those 'trucking' mission, hauling 80-octane to Patton's armor. (The 96th Wing went off combat for several weeks on this detail, for which they got no mission credits.) In Little Pete II he landed on the pock-marked runway of Clastres, a Luftwaffe field he had helped bomb a few weeks earlier! The last German occupants were scurrying away as he made his low pass and a US Army tank came onto the airfield.

Brian Mahoney

Regarding "Trucking Missions" I have always understood that to mean general resupply missions.  B-24s were well suited to that.  The cargo specific B-24 variant was a C-87...although history shows that bombers could simply be loaded with QM stores rather than bombs if necessary.  There was also a gas hauler version of the B-24 called a C-109.  Many Troop Carrier units had one or two C-109s in inventory from later 44 onward for their own use as well as to transport gas to forward bases.

Wow! So much information to follow up on - Thank you!
 
Scott & pathfinder: I based the KIA designation on the info listed in the "Not-An-MACR" file in my first post. It's hard to read, but it does say killed in action. It is also listed on a memorial card on the National WWII Memorial site.
 
Regarding it being a "Trucking Mission:" It says Trucking Mission in the file noted above, but it doesn't specify what that means. I could be wrong about what my uncle's flight was trucking. I assumed it was a fuel run based on a snippet I read on a couple of different sites, "The 466th was one of three groups in the 96th Combat Bomb Wing, which was taken off operations in September 1944 to haut low octane gas to Clastres, Lille, and St. Dizier, France." Similar to what Brian posted, a few other sites noted that the group's morale was pretty low at the time, since they were flying Trucking Runs with skeleton crews and not getting mission credit. I also read that heavy bombers were used because when stripped down they could carry a lot of fuel.
 
Leendert: I think 29 Nov 44 is a mistype. Everywhere else it says 29 Sept 44 (except one place that lists 23 Sept 44) and the (again) above mentioned file notes a Battle Causality report was submitted on 2 Oct 44. The "Missing Ops" notation is interesting.
 
Randy: I'll be sending you an email. Thank you so much!
 
One more request, the Attlebridge Diaries and and Attlebridge Arsenal are out of my price range, so if anyone has copies I wonder if you'd look something up for me. Another member on here looked up info on the crash, but there was just a passing mention. I don't think he looked up anything other than the crash itself. I'm curious if either lists the names of my uncle's full crew. There were only 5 crew members (including my uncle) on board the flight, plus Wilbur Hain (listed as "Observer'), who I've been told may have been part of the ground crew just getting some airtime (I think that's in the Arsenal). Pictures I have of the plane & crew show 8 men in one and 10 in another. I've read accounts online by members of the 466th who were part of crews that flew similar missions, but I haven't found any that say what their crew number was. Attlebridge Diaries has my uncle's crew listed as #741. Notably, I think the Diaries has my uncle listed as Marshall E. Lewis, instead of Marshall K. Lewis. His serial # is O-701934, and the plane was 41-29439. 
 
Cheers to you all!
 
Trelaine