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Hot!Looking for info Mission 24th Dec 1944

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Joost de Raaf
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Looking for info Mission 24th Dec 1944

Hello all,
In a general interest in 8th AF & missions flown I am trying to get a picture of mission flown on Dec 24th 1944. The largest mission flown.
I do have some pdf files containing reports to 8th AF HQ and they do also contain formation plans on that date
 
Looking at http://www.457thbombgroup../Narratives/MA162.HTML, it provides all the serials involved (last 3 digits)
Did a cross reference with Bit's & Pieces and came up with following :
 
42-31630 / J        42-97934 / A        43-38394 / N        43-38854 / L        44-6518 / R
42-31706 / M        42-98024 / Q        43-38534        43-38855 / Q        44-6621 / U
42-32101 / F        42-98028 / Q        43-38540 / N        43-38857 / D        44-8152 / A
42-38021 /K        43-37574 / T        43-38582 / R        43-38863 / S        44-8219 / D
42-38113 / A        43-37733 / J        43-38594 / B        43-38881 / L        44-8368 / G
42-97123 / L        43-37765 / B        43-38606 / P        43-38885 / P        44-8414 / H
42-97164 / H        43-37796 / M        43-38707 / H        43-38887 / M       
42-97190 / Z        43-37826 / R        43-38749 / S        43-38909 / D       
42-97591 / W        43-37828 / L        43-38819 / N        44-6161 / F       
42-97827 / B        43-38301 / N        43-38831 / W        44-6509 / H       
 
However formation plans of 457th are missing in the reports i have on pdf file.
Was wondering I anyone could help me out which B-17 flew in which formation.
 
Morning mission ,
7 a/c took off from Glatton with 1 (43-38819) crashing on take off
2 a/c took off other base and Joined remaining 6 a/c
 
Afternoon Take off,
 
34 a/c took off , (A group 12 a/c , B group 10 a/c , C group 12 a/c) but were recalled, only 1 a/c of C group went into enemy teritory
 
3 other a/c flew with 388th BG
 
This makes a grand total of 46 a/c which perfectly matches
 
Many Thanks in Advance
Regards
Joost de Raaf
Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
 
 

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    shooshoobaby
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    Re:Looking for info Mission 24th Dec 1944 (permalink)
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    Joost - 12/24/44 Mission
    From Book Flak Dodger, 457th BG by Roland Byers. 
    6 B-17s had taken Off when Fog closed in.
    The 7th B-17 # 43 - 38819 Crashed on Take Off and later
    Exploded , 1 Crewman KIA - Sgt. Donald Peacock.
    Pilot - 2LT. Carl Sundbaum.
    No more 457th BG B-17s Took off on morning Mission.   
    From 388th BG History Book: Afternoon Mission
    3 457th BG B-17s , #694 Pilot Lt. Capovitz , #479 Pilot Lt. Weber
    and #203 Pilot Lt. Burningham plus 2 303d BG B-17s #050 Pilot Lt. Gates ,
    #258 Pilot Lt.Tasker along with 388th BG PFF #234 Pilots Lt. Rye and
    Lt. Woodburn Made up the F Group Low Composite Sq.
    Mike
     
    post edited by shooshoobaby -
    Michael Rainsberry
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    Re:Looking for info Mission 24th Dec 1944 (permalink)
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    Hi, Joost
     
    Not sure if my last message went through.
     
    I can't help you on 457BG missions on 24th December 1944 although I could give you the contact details of the 457 BG historian who has written 3 books on this group.
     
    Could you help me with any information about what happened to the 457BG the previous day? About 15 of them were coming back to Glatton from Cornwall were they had been stuck for 4 days.  Some got into Glatton before it was closed again.  I'm trying to find out where Glatton diverted their planes to on 23rd December.
     
    Also do you know Erwin de Mooij?  Big 457BG hero living in Netherlands.
    Best wishes
    Michael 
     
     
     
    joost900

    Hello all,
    In a general interest in 8th AF & missions flown I am trying to get a picture of mission flown on Dec 24th 1944. The largest mission flown.
    I do have some pdf files containing reports to 8th AF HQ and they do also contain formation plans on that date

    Looking at http://www.457thbombgroup../Narratives/MA162.HTML, it provides all the serials involved (last 3 digits)
    Did a cross reference with Bit's & Pieces and came up with following :

    42-31630 / J        42-97934 / A        43-38394 / N        43-38854 / L        44-6518 / R
    42-31706 / M        42-98024 / Q        43-38534        43-38855 / Q        44-6621 / U
    42-32101 / F        42-98028 / Q        43-38540 / N        43-38857 / D        44-8152 / A
    42-38021 /K        43-37574 / T        43-38582 / R        43-38863 / S        44-8219 / D
    42-38113 / A        43-37733 / J        43-38594 / B        43-38881 / L        44-8368 / G
    42-97123 / L        43-37765 / B        43-38606 / P        43-38885 / P        44-8414 / H
    42-97164 / H        43-37796 / M        43-38707 / H        43-38887 / M       
    42-97190 / Z        43-37826 / R        43-38749 / S        43-38909 / D       
    42-97591 / W        43-37828 / L        43-38819 / N        44-6161 / F       
    42-97827 / B        43-38301 / N        43-38831 / W        44-6509 / H       

    However formation plans of 457th are missing in the reports i have on pdf file.
    Was wondering I anyone could help me out which B-17 flew in which formation.

    Morning mission ,
    7 a/c took off from Glatton with 1 (43-38819) crashing on take off
    2 a/c took off other base and Joined remaining 6 a/c

    Afternoon Take off,

    34 a/c took off , (A group 12 a/c , B group 10 a/c , C group 12 a/c) but were recalled, only 1 a/c of C group went into enemy teritory

    3 other a/c flew with 388th BG

    This makes a grand total of 46 a/c which perfectly matches

    Many Thanks in Advance
    Regards
    Joost de Raaf
    Apeldoorn, The Netherlands




    RSwank
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    Re:Looking for info Mission 24th Dec 1944 (permalink)
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    I think on the 23rd, planes may have been diverted to Knettishell.  There is reference to 3 planes taking off there on the 24th on this link.
    http://www.457thbombgroup.org/Narratives/MA162.HTML
     
    On the 19th, the planes had been diverted to Portreath.  Some, but not all returned to Glatton on the 23rd.  One crashed and it would appear at least 3 others may have diverted to Knettishell,  if we assume the reference above is referring to planes that tried to return on the 23rd and got diverted again.  What do you think?
    http://www.457thbombgroup.org/Narratives/MA161.HTML
    shooshoobaby
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    Re:Looking for info Mission 24th Dec 1944 (permalink)
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    Mike -
    From Book 388th BG at War
    by Edward Huntzinger Pages 192 , 195.
    12/24/44 Mission -  Several Aircraft from the 457th BG
    had landed at Knettishell the Day before. These 3 A/C
    were added to the 6th Squadron , F Group for the Mission.
    Pilots were Lt. Capovitz 694 , Lt. Weber 479 and 
    Lt. Burningham 203.
    Cheers,
    Mike
    Joost de Raaf
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    Re:Looking for info Mission 24th Dec 1944 (permalink)
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    I can't help you on 457BG missions on 24th December 1944 although I could give you the contact details of the 457 BG historian who has written 3 books on this group.


    Hi Michael, yes please! 
     
    With regard to 457th on Dec 19th Mission, I do have formation plan(s) of that day. Although realize does not include any info as what happend between 19th Dec & 23rd Dec :

     

     

     

     


    Regards
    Joost de Raaf
    Apeldoorn. The Netherlands

     

     

     


     
    Joost de Raaf
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    Re:Looking for info Mission 24th Dec 1944 (permalink)
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    shooshoobaby

    Mike -
    From Book 388th BG at War
    by Edward Huntzinger Pages 192 , 195.
    12/24/44 Mission -  Several Aircraft from the 457th BG
    had landed at Knettishell the Day before. These 3 A/C
    were added to the 6th Squadron , F Group for the Mission.
    Pilots were Lt. Capovitz 694 , Lt. Weber 479 and 
    Lt. Burningham 203.
    Cheers,
    Mike

     
    They were flying in Low Sqn, which realy was a composite to say the least.
    Besides 3x 457th BG , also 2x 303rd BG  & 4x 303rd BG (believe out of Snetterton) flew in Low Sqn with a 388th BG a lead ship
     
    The whole of 13 "F" group consisted of 1st AD diversions with 351st BG & 384th BG as High & lead Sqn's
     
    Grtz
    Joost
    shooshoobaby
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    Re:Looking for info Mission 24th Dec 1944 (permalink)
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    Joost -
    According to Narrative and Formation Diagram in
    the 388th BG Book , F Group Low consisted of the
    3 457th BG B-17s , 2 303d BG B-17s that had landed
    at Snetterton Heath the Day before and a 388th BG PFF.
    The 2 303d B-17s were Lt. Tasker 258 and Lt. Gates 050.
    This Formation was led by 388th BG PFF , Pilots Woodburn
    and Rye 234.
    Mike
    Joost de Raaf
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    Re:Looking for info Mission 24th Dec 1944 (permalink)
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    shooshoobaby

    Joost -
    According to Narrative and Formation Diagram in
    the 388th BG Book , F Group Low consisted of the
    3 457th BG B-17s and 2 303d BG B-17s that had landed
    at Snetterton Heath the Day before.
    The 2 303d B-17s were Lt. Tasker 258 and Lt. Gates 050.
    This Formation was led by 388th BG PFF , Pilots Woodburn
    and Rye 234.
    Mike

     
    Agree,
    303rd BG notes for this day includes : 4 a/c loaned to 96th BG & 2 a/c 388th BG
    Formation plan of 96th BG does show more planes of this low group, not mentioned on 388th BG plan and vica versa:
     

     
      This is 388th BG formation plan, does note 96th BG in the left of formation....



    Regards
    Joost
     
     
    Joost de Raaf
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    Re:Looking for info Mission 24th Dec 1944 (permalink)
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    Just noted, the 3 Aircraft of 457th BG flying 13F "low" are not mentioned at all at 457th BG site for narratives on Dec 24th 1944
    So grand total of 46 I mentioned, does not fit... as I would have 49 as grand total.
    Still leaves my original Question, when did which airframe flewin which formation?
     
    Michael Rainsberry
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    Re:Looking for info Mission 24th Dec 1944 (permalink)
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    Hi
     
    I have only just seen your message.  It did not show up in new messages to me.  The 457BG historian is James Bass
    jlbass@bassandbass.com
    He has written three books on the 457BG called Fait Accompli I, II, III.
    Best wishes
    Michael  (email me please on michael.rainsberry@btinternet.com
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