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Helpful ReplyHot!Long Shot Photo ID

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ke4itp
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Long Shot Photo ID

I know this is a very long shot, but nothing ventured nothing gained.  Can anyone identify the attached photo?  In particular, I am trying to determine where it was taken.

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Tex Longhorn
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Re:Long Shot Photo ID (permalink)
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What does the sign on the ground say?

14th AAF 23rd FG 118th TRS

RSwank
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Re:Long Shot Photo ID (permalink)
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Top word is SHARK , on the bottom is Flying Tiger(s) .  There is a middle word that I can't make out
RSwank
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Re:Long Shot Photo ID (permalink)
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The pilot in the cockpit seems to be wearing a crush air force hat, but the  MPs talking to him might be wearing maybe Canadian army hats?   The shape seems odd. The cars in the background seem to be maybe mid to late 1940s.   One of the cars almost looks two-tone, but that may be a shadow effect.
ke4itp
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Re:Long Shot Photo ID (permalink)
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Thanks for the replies.  The words on the sign are SHARK at the top and Flying Tigers at the bottom.  The  middle appears to be two words with the longer first followed by a short two letter word ... perhaps "of".  Maybe the longer word is "Property", but on the images I have it is too blurred to say with any certainty.  The photo is from my father-in-law who served in the AAF through most of the 40s decade.
RSwank
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Re:Long Shot Photo ID (permalink)
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Actually, there is something quite different in the way the shark mouth is painted on this plane.  Most Shark P-40s have many more teeth along each side.   Also many (most?) seem to have a red  tongue behind the bottom teeth.  Also the top line of the mouth often curves upwards in the middle,  kind of a sneer effect.  Often the teeth will curve backwards.  These teeth look more like triangles almost perfectly offset, bottom fitting into the gap in the top. The inside of this shark mouth appears to be completely black.  There is also a lot of variation in how the eyes are done.  Whether all these other things are just after war artistic license taken on the various war birds I don't know.  Supposedly the English actually started painting Shark mouths according do some web sites I have seen.   It would be interesting to actually look at some vintage photos to see what actually WWII shark mouths looked like.
garyg
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Re:Long Shot Photo ID (permalink)
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It certainly doesn't look like any AVG/Flying Tigers P-40 I've seen.  Could it possibly be a photo taken post-war at a base or museum of a P-40 repainted to represent an AVG/Flying Tiger P-40 but done inaccurately?  Just food for thought...
ke4itp
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Re:Long Shot Photo ID (permalink)
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Hi Gary,
The post (European) war bases my father-in-law was stationed at include Abilene, TX; La Junta, CO; and Selfridge, MI.  I do not have any information to indicate if the photo was taken at any of these.
 
Bill
RSwank
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Re:Long Shot Photo ID (permalink)
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I think it is possible the picture was taken at Selfridge Field, MI  possibly in 1947 which was when the Air Force was created and it became Selfridge Air Force Base.   It may well be that a "historical" type  displays were set up during a big ceremony.   There were also an annual (now maybe semi-annual) air shows at Selfridge.  There is a book on the history of Selfridge  Field.  It might be worth taking a look.
 
http://www.amazon.com/Selfridge-Field-MI-Images-Aviation/dp/0738540234
 
The above link lets you preview a little of the book if you click on the book's picture  and I note that a P-40 is apparently shown on a couple of the pages.  Like you say  a real long shot.  Another possibility would be to contact the author of the book and let her see your picture.  
ke4itp
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Re:Long Shot Photo ID (permalink)
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I got a copy of Images of Aviation Selfridge Field by Larsen and Nigro, but have not found anything in it to help identify my photo.
 
Bill
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Re:Long Shot Photo ID (permalink) ☄ Helpful
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I have three photos in my collection showing this same ship at the Nebraska State Fair in September of 1942.
You can see them at the bottom of this page on my P-40 website:
 
http://p40hawksnest.co.nf/Variants/P40C.html
 
As to the sharkmouth, it struck me as possibly having been inspired by some of those applied to Tomahawks
of 112 'Shark' Squadron, RAF.
 
 
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Buckeyemike
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I spent 12 years on Selfridge....remember Lou Nigro when he was a "butter bar".   I also have the "images of Aviation..Selfridge Field" .  Good read.   I did the nose art on a/c 80772 on page 111....I was the crew chief on her until we transistioned to F-4's in '77 or '78.
As for the P-40 in question here, I cannot identify it as being at Selfridge.  The area doesn't look familiar to me. Maybe it was too long before my time.
 
Mike
ke4itp
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Re:Long Shot Photo ID (permalink)
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Steve,
OMG! What a surprise. I started this thread almost two years ago and had about forgotten about it. My father-in-law graduated from pilot training in August 1942 at Foster Field, TX. He was from Diller, NE. Maybe the photo was taken while he was on leave following graduation. Thanks so much for your reply.
Bill
RSwank
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Re:Long Shot Photo ID (permalink)
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I would agree it is probably the same plane but I don't think it is at the same time or perhaps even the same place.  In the original picture, the "Shark" sign is located very close and almost "even" with the stairs, in the Iowa Fair Picture, the sign is placed more forward if the stairs.   
In the original photo, behind the left wing of the plane is a white building, in the Iowa picture there seems to be some windblown trees.
In the original photo, the chock on the right wheel has a rope hanging down across the front of the chock, in the Iowa photo I don't see the rope in the same position.
In the original photo, the stairs have a hand rail.   I don't see the hand rail in the Iowa photos.    
If this plane was a Army Air Force  "touring" plane, used for displays at fairs, air shows, etc. and they used the same equipment at each location, the addition of the hand rail on the stairs may mean the original photo was taken later than the Iowa photo.  
25Kingman49
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Re:Long Shot Photo ID (permalink)
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Original AVG photo in flight; note teeth point to point, not in an interlock position if they were to close as in the show aircraft. As you can see there is some variation mouth to mouth artwork: see second aircraft in formation. 
Scott
 

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Re:Long Shot Photo ID (permalink)
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Bill, I'm glad to have shed some light. I take it that the photo you posted was taken by your father-in-law? If so, based on the info you provided, I'd say that it's highly likely that your photo was taken at the Nebraska State Fair in 1942.
 
RSwank, I have to say that I must oppose your comparative analysis of the photos. If you'd like me to expound, I will... although, if I were to do so, it's bound to be rather lengthy. However, I will say this... it's 'Nebraska', not 'Iowa'...
 
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ke4itp
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Re:Long Shot Photo ID (permalink)
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Steve, in answer to your question, since I have the negative as well as prints, I think it is safe to say my father-in-law (or at least a member of his family) took the photo I posted.
Bill
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Is definitely home front. Arm bands on two leaning toward cockpit are Observers. Have many in collection.

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John Stiles

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Will never forget my friend Lt.Col. Arthur Durtschi (Dec) Pilot 347FG, 67SQ 150 Combat Missions P-38L 166 "Wisco Kid"
ke4itp
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Re:Long Shot Photo ID (permalink)
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I recently obtained a family photo album that contains a copy of the photo at the top of this thread. Under the photo is a handwritten note that says "Flying Tiger at Lincoln State Fair, Sept. '42" so Steve is correct.
Bill
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